Original opening post by Leavchip:


Y'all are going to look like a bunch of Zorro's

hehehe sorry lol.... Btw the new dress code is all black no white or red except on flags and symbols. Cloth masks tied around face are optional I believe. I think someone on Twitter is creating a prototype.

I am wondering if the band even realizes how much time, effort and money people have spent on customizing some of their outfits - which according to them now shouldn't be used anymore. Do they really expect that we stop wearing that stuff? Occasional color nights, fine. But for the rest I wear what I feel like it. And if it happens to be a red shirt, so be it. Though I can gladly pass on the white pants.

Exactly!

I have white pants but I've been thinking that I dye them red. I'm too messy for white. And like I said in twitter, I'll pass the black pants. Black skirt tho would be nice.

I thought the whole emo craze was dead, maybe that was just wishful thinking. They don't seriously expect us all to just jump and start wearing all black all of the time like a bunch of beatniks do they? What ever happened to creativity, originality and art? I love making shirts up for concerts, it's part of the fun of getting ready and excited for them. Now they want me to become some drone and dress how they want while eliminating my creativity? For a band that's about the visual aspect almost, or as much, as the music they really don't seem to want us to project any of that. Here's my theory: I'll wear what ever the hell it is that I want to wear, listen to their music if I like it, go to shows still if I like them and that's that. No frontman or no band is going to dictate what I wear.

I really hope he was atleast half-joking when he thought this up because I think it's ridiculous. I'm all for unity but not at the cost of my individuality.

*So in case you can't tell I'm in a bad mood. Hope I didn't offend anyone but I had something to say and I'm done staying quiet. Think of me what you will, I don't care any more.

Can I sig this part?

At first look, I'm not a big fan of it either. But as I said before, I'll wait and see what their overall plan is. Who knows, it might be really cool. The part about anonymity made it at least a bit more interesting. Let's not forget, that our 'individuality' at shows (in terms of colours) is already limited to...three. And with white nights and black nights and colour nights, they've already limited us even more, if we so choose to follow.

Whether you do or not is up to you, as it has been in the past, and always will be.

I think it's a bit weird that they're outwardly being so strict about it, and I still don't like the elimination of red, but I'm not certain that getting so up in arms about it is worth it. If I don't want to follow, I just...won't. Which is pretty much what I said in chat when he mentioned it. Haha.

Oh this is true!!...
It's better... I think...

Part of getting ready was deciding what to wear. Oh the fights about a possible colournight I didn't really participated on colournights, but that's because most of them were 'red night'. Not really my kind of color But still, I thought it was pretty cool to see what everyone else made. That was kind of what this fanbase was famous for: selfmade merch!

The dresscode now seems indeed a bit strict. I realize they want to make a big art-project out of it, but I don't think it will work... I mean... wasn't it about the music? Sure, the extra stuff surrounding it is cool too, but when you create a policy of what we should wear- that's crossing the line a bit

I feel like 'this is a cult' and 'start my own religion' are being taken a bit seriously. And I worry about the fans that are blindly following the band. This can go wrong.

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I really don't like the way it was said. Kind of like why the French didn't like The Hive _{(I don't have any problems with the Hive at this point, it's still too vague to me..)}.



Maybe I will wear black during concerts. But I also have the right to wear whatever I want. And that could be purple leggings and a pink shirt with a sparkly unicorn on it.

I believe that I have no problem with the dress.
I always need to have those colors. It's like a trademark.

But everyone has a right to wear what you want. Not bad.

I don´t think that goes wrong.
So, everyone has the option to dress as one wants.

I like ninja's, but this is getting ridiculous

but we have our own emoticon here!!!

My GOODNESS things were active after I left last night! I have to say the tweets with let's try this all guys say 'YO and then right after No no just the guys! cracked me the fuck up

Since we are discussing the color thing cause they have tweeted about it [making it fair game] I'll say something I was going to post in purgatory as a followup to my earlier comments

"It is time for a change. We must continue to move forward and evolve in all respects. Presentation and identity included. The color RED is important for many reasons and will remain so. It is the color of passion, the color of blood, the color of MARS. It should be left on the MARS flag, TRINITY seal, MITHRA seal and TYRE - (the arrow) ONLY from here on out. For this next phase BLACK attire will be the foundation and the canvas to build upon. This is war. White dress is for special occasions and should be ALL WHITE NO RED on any clothing at all. It should be kept special and limited to the previously mentioned symbols and icons. Please encourage everyone to join in this experiment. It will be a sight to see. -CRASH MINISTER OF PROPAGANDA [echelon]"

WHITE - is now to be reserved for special occasions only and there should not be ANY red on the white clothing. Except the statement goes on to say "It should be kept special and limited to the previously mentioned symbols and icons" so... white should either be a plain shirt/pants FOR SPECIAL OCCASIONS and/or white can be used to create the previously mentioned symbols and icons i.e. the MARS flag, TRINITY seal, MITHRA seal and TYRE - (the arrow). I think...

BLACK - is the foundation and canvas to be built on. So we SHOULD wear black and if we wish to adorn/paint/embroider/pin things on said black clothing, if we wish to use white OR red then we should reserve those colors for the MARS flag, TRINITY seal, MITHRA seal and TYRE - (the arrow) ONLY.

RED - should be left on the MARS flag, TRINITY seal, MITHRA seal and TYRE - (the arrow) ONLY from here on out. *** please note that the glyphics, either set, were not mentioned in this here red/white thing. This is important! ;>

So... I am feeling like a lot of other people are. Not liking being roped in. This fanbase IS sorta famous for home made gear. It's definately one of the things that helped draw me into Mars World in the first place! I LUV my little white hoodie with my little home made patches. I only wore it to two shows, it has more life to it yet. And I am most probibly going to keep wearing it if there is a chill in the air. They will have to yell at me for not following directions, sorry. :/

Now, onto the humor value... and do remember which very important MARS symbol was left out of the list... I was in the local discount store last week and saw an inexpensive little slinky black top, with lace around the bottom and little spaggetti straps, which so does not say THIS IS WAR at all no but for $7 I got a brilliant idea... and promptly bought it. You want me to wear black? Okay fine, I'll make a new black shirt, oh yes I will. And I shall paint the GLYPHICS on the front of this girly shirt, but not in red or white cause glyphs were not listed in that decree... so, I shall paint the glyphs in... purple.

Bow down before me - cause I am silly and I do adore a challenge.


he's a wise man...

You are fucking genius! *bows down*

*looks around at all the red and white in her closet*

*looks around at the almost total absence of black in her closet*

Yeah... don't think I'm going to be buying a whole new wardrobe in order to satisfy these inane color requirements. And it's not even just that. I literally *just* bought a shirt from the Mars store. It's greyish-white with the symbols all in black with red lettering. Therefore it breaks the rules (no red save for symbols). So now I can't wear an official piece of merch I bought from the band to one of their shows? How the hell does that makes sense? And bandannas around my face? Seriously? I live in gang territory. Do they want me to get arrested for dressing like a banger?

Honestly, I get what Jared and the boys are going for, I do. But it's just not feasible to actually accomplish. And now anyone who doesn't follow these dress codes at shows is going to be persecuted, hounded and made to feel unwelcome. And what about all the new fans who are going to just come to the show and won't know anything about these dress codes? You can bet your ass they'll be accosted as well. DO you think they'll want to go to more shows if they get shit simply for the colors they choose to wear? I think not.

I thought one of the primary principles 30STM was trying to promote was the pursuit of individuality within a family group. Finding your own identity whilst still connecting to a greater collective. Very Jungian, very true. But these codes and restrictions and rules go against every fiber of those principles, and I just don't even understand why the band is doing this. You core values should not be sacrificed for simple visual impact. Period.

This whole thing saddens me a great deal.

sorry but i'll have to inform them that "I will wear whatever the fuck I want to wear."
And sorry I will not be wearing a bandana across my face..
sorry but I thought only people that did that wasnt from a free country and believed in a different religion.

I also agree with the poster above me.. I will wear my RED Official Mars shirt that i have purchased to one of their shows if I feel like it.

all this senseless bullshit is really pissing me off.. first the garbage with the hive and now this..
The only good stuff that is coming from all these mindfucks is that they will play both S/T and ABL during the new tour(if that will happen, no one really knows)


call me a bad echelon.. I dont care.

This.




And this.


I thought for a moment (stupid really) that I was the only one. I'd seen other people jump at this dress code with a loud YES OMG THIS IS AWESOME and I've just been cringing at the whole idea. Cute at first, then not so cute at all when enforced like it feels like it has been. Not very cute at all.

For me it has very personal reasons not to wear black. I know that might sound weird, but voila, it's out there. I don't want to HAVE TO just because it's the new ''dress code'' and I don't want to feel estranged at shows when I don't. When, not if.

I liked the colour code nights, but because there was always a choice between red, white, black and then even the neon coloured ones. I liked that. And then you didn't have to dress in that colour, or combine it with either of the two or even both, perhaps just letting the coded colour be the ''ruling'' colour.

The dress code feels wrong to me. Sorry to say.

I won't do it. It's a great project, a great idea, but no. I agree too much with the part that I quoted from Morganafq to abide by the new rule.

Thank you so much for your support on this. It means a lot to know that others are feeling the way that I am on this and similar matters.


--morganafq

I love you. You should really post more.

I agree. I'm not gonna wear all black just because the band said so. Especially not for a glyphic mission or something like this. In my country, demonstrators look like this, black clothes, with bandanas across their face... :/ I don't want people to think that I'm "dangerous" and doing something negative. To be honest, I really like black. And I can understand the meaning of it and stuff. But red+white is more *special*. Seriously... if a bunch of people are in ALL black with bandanas here, I'm sure other people won't ask, what we are doing. Maybe they'll call the police By the way, it feels really good, when in some other countries echelon make a glypic mission in red and white clothes and people around them look like they are curious and not "horrified". And what about the handmade gear? And the "individuality within a family group" like morganafq said?!
Sorry I just had to write my opinion. And sorry for my english

Concur. The first enthusiastic reactions from fans regarding this new band dictated dress code made me wonder, if I was the only one who felt uncomfortable with the idea and I'm very glad to read that this doesn't seem to be the case. The band always had this visual element in everything they did, but it always came naturally. It didn't seem staged. The omnipresent dress code they started with from yesterday however took a lot from the musical experience for me. The music doesn't seem to be in the center anymore. The dress code doesn't support the musical element, but the cult element they are trying to go by. Now that 'this is a cult' theme is linked even stronger to the war theme it makes me cringe. The whole dress black and mask yourself, be a collective, assimilate yourself and leave your identity behind to unify doesn't sit well with me. The music was supposed to be the "unifying" element, if you want to name one at all.

Wearing black (and to be almost prohibited to wear other colors), putting on masks, joining a war and entering the Hive... if I would want to put it cynic I would have to say that black was the most natural choice, because brown had already been taken. For now the whole thing makes me cringe and the band really will have to do some explaining in order to make that feeling go away - almost saddening to see fans feel so cautious about a band and their music.

I would say, we should calm down regarding the restrictions. As he said, it is an experiment, they want to try out something new, we have had three colours for many years now. Black and bandanas fit to the topic war. This answer is not a reason to start crying .
Are these restrictions exaggerated? Yes, but for me, this doesn't mean that I am not allowed to wear my red shirts anymore. If I want to wear something red, I do so, no matter who says I'm not allowed to. You still have the right to make your own decision. It has never been a problem at any show with dress code if some people didn't take part. I didn't always take part. Never were new fans at concerts disdained because they weren't dressed right. The idea that people will be excluded somehow is ridiculous. You know that this community is not based on a dress code.
Bandanas are nothing new, we've had them for years. Wearing bandanas in public when gathering in a group is prohibited in my country - so I don't do it. Point. I can wear it inside the venue if I want to (actually it's too warm after some time ).
I just want to say: Relax and wait until we hear more about when/where/how the new dress code is to be applied. Maybe you like the final result. And if not, wear whatever you want.

But I admit: All in all (with the Hive and so on) it sounds like they want to build up an army to conquer the world...

*blushes* Thank you. Given the kind and considerate response I've gotten so far (which was quite the opposite of what I had anticipated to be honest), I think I will.

What do you guys think about perhaps taking this subject to The Hive board? If others are game I'd like to write something up that details both the concerns I've raised as well as the insightful things others have said in this and other threads. I think this is a problem we need to tackle right on and really let the band know how we are feeling about this issue. And since The Hive is supposed to be a brainstorming center for ideas for The Echelon and the band, perhaps that's the best place for this to be discussed?

I wouldn't want to be presumptuous and simply write something up without hearing from others, but if others are game I'll be happy to write a formal proposal detailing the feelings expressed on this subject for The Hive. Please let me know and I'll get right on it if I get a green light.

Once again, thank you all ever so much for your kindness.

^
Maybe. Or voice it it purgatory, as a separated medium, since the hive is already in the line of things some of us here criticized.


I think no one of us would seriously insinuate that the bad is aiming at more than experimenting with new ideas to include the audience in their performance, but that many of us do see the possibility of this going further than just supporting music, into a more problematic direction, aiming at more than having fun as fans with a band is ... well I dunno what it is exactly, but I would wish that it just wasn't there.

I do agree with you that we all have to show patience and wait for what picture all these piece will make up in the end. Still I think it's important that this is already a topic of discussion when the band is still in process of forming ideas, before they are set in stone. It was a good idea for instance when they asked a bout 'blitzkrieg', so we will have to wait and see what good the fans' opinion will do now.

I've posted this in the other thread, but I might as well do it here too:


I can't remember if it was in this thread or the MarsTv thread, but in my post I said this whole thing could turn out wrong. Not only for the reasons Morganafq gave, but also because ehm... the whole 'this is a cult'- thing is getting out of hand. Giving a strict dresscode, people wearing bandanas to be anonymous, the war-theme getting stronger and they said this would be a religous album and black is a religous color so that's what we should wear.

To be blunt: there are some people who are absolutely batshit crazy. Last year, when all of this wasn't even known, there was already someone on the Dutch board who claimed Jared was Jesus. And she was serious. That's only 1 person that we know of in a small country. How many other people do you think also have these thoughts? And how many people will be send over the edge by all this new info? How many of those have seen Chapter 27 and recognised something? Or were inspired?

Maybe I'm being really pessimistic here, but this has been on my mind for a while now...

I was thinking of opening a thread in Purgatory where we can express our concerns...

But I was afraid it would get me banned for pointless negativity

With all deference, I would like to politely disagree with some of what you've said here. While it is very true that in the past people have never been shunned for wearing what they liked to shows, we have never before had such a strict dress code placed on we the fans before. I feel that both the repetitiveness of the band's message about how and when to wear certain colors and the emphasis placed on said restrictions in chat (i.e. "NO RED" in all caps) puts a serious cap on what we are "allowed" at wear *as fans*. That's the part I feel is the most salient - since that band has decreed it so, anyone who does not abide by the dress code, for whatever the reason, may well be deemed *not a fan* by a significant portion of the fan base. After all, if the band repeatedly and emphatically tells we the fan base to do something, we'd better do it else we be seen by other fans and Echelon as not a being a *real* fan. It's a sad idea, but not an impossible one.

Now, of course this might never come to pass. I don't claim to be able to foresee the future or to know what lies ahead. But what I do know is that this is a family already divided. This is a family that seems sometimes to live to fight with each other. And with all the war themes now being thrown into the mix, fighting seems almost an inevitability. As The Offspring aptly said: "If one guy's colors and the others don't mix they're going to bash it up." If there is a chance on the horizon of Echelon bashing each other up simply over colors... why not take steps to stop it now? Why wait and see? We can foresee potential problems, so let's head this off at the pass and try to repair any damage before it gets out of hand.

You yourself don't seem altogether comfortable with the dress code, so let's talk about it. Let's address the pros and cons of it and try, as a family, to find the best way to take the band's vision of a unified army and make it a comfortable, safe, and still individual reality for everyone. I don't see the harm in that, and please understand that I say all of this with only the best of intentions for both the band and the fan base as a whole.

Thank you for listening.

I'll take the chance.

Thanks to you and Mabo for giving me the idea to write this up in Purgatory. Perhaps a cross-post to The Hive (which is being watched very closely by the band ATM) wouldn't be out of line to ensure that it is seen? You guys are much more the experts then I so any help would be appreciated.

It's quite late so I'm going to adjourn for the night but I will definitely check in as soon as I can tomorrow to see how this discussion has developed. Once again, many many thanks to you all.

and finally the light...

The only reason I can think of with the colour theme/code/directive whatever being an issue is because



and would read more into it than is necessary.

I absolutely agree.
At every cocncert people wear bands gear to be identified as fans, wear some colours beacuse it fit the bands logos, design, or just wear some things simply because they want it. Now by adding ideology to clothing I'm afraid some people may go to much into it and may tak this whole war-theme, anonymity way to seriously.

Besides - isn't it better to leave interpretation of the theme, logo, symbols to the fans like it used to be before? Now we have the interpretation, dress code given, previously it was up to our creativity.

I have been watching this unfold for the last few days and was wondering what people would think of the dress code. My first thought was the "people are going to wear whatever the band tells them too without questioning it". I am actually really surprised that alot of other people seem to hate the idea too.

I thought this would be an opportunity for us to tell all the new people about the Kool-Aid and the sacrifice ceremonies

They always say that 30stm is "more than music". But I think I know what you question is about. The problem could be that there'll be people who'll take this all more seriously than they should.

I'm going to continue wearing my favourite colour to gigs: RED.

Not to be uppity or contrary but because this band claims to support individuality, making your own decisions and living your life, your way. I remember a whole damn speech Jared gave at (blanked on which show) about telling authority "FUCK YOU". I remember because he specifically mentioned telling your teachers that and I was mildly amused, being a teacher myself.

So band, seeing as how you are attempting to be an authority that wants to wipe out individuality and free thought: FUCK YOU, I will continue to do just as I please. Not in the least because I am (planning to) pay for the CD and concert tickets. If it was a free show, I may reconsider adhering to a mandatory dress code.



[I just hope the batshit crazy division doesn't beat me up]

Ah yes, that's true too. I don't know, I'm a bit confused.

We know that a dresscode can be a big fun. For me it wouldn't be such a big problem, but I really don't want to be mixed up with those aggressive people who make political demonstrations in my country.

So I'll just wear what I want as I always do

Ok, I didn't see this new dresscode as that serious. But I agree, things could develop into that direction which would be totally stupid. I only know for myself and the people I know here that I/we wouldn't behave like that, but I know as well and it has been said here before, that there are many many people who take everything the band says at face value.
If I would be despised or shunned by other fans due to the shirt I wear I'm sure that this would only be people I don't really know anyway and I don't want to know. But with this restriction they somehow would have the right to do so ... This would in fact be a really sad development and would rather divide instead of unite this family...
I agree, this should be discussed elsewhere to get more attention!

I really couldn't agree more with this.
And it doesn't help that I really dislike wearing all black.

I think what bugs people is that they seem so strict with the color restrictions now. I mean honestly we've always loved color nights, and to dress up for those color nights. But the beauty even of those color nights was that nobody cared how things were combined, if you wanted to do a red longsleeve under a white tshirt and wear a red bandana that was fine, and that is what made the color nights interesting. Or on nights when there weren't any colors defined you put on whatever color you felt like, which was mostly one of the three colors anyway. Now being told what you have to wear - all the time - and how it's allowed to be combined is what is rubbing people the wrong way I guess. Because that is what makes us loose our creativity and our own choice. Plus what about all the home made stuff we made that now doesn't fit those "specifications" and the official merch that doesn't fit those color specifications either. While I think their heart was at the right place when they wanted to organize the colors a bit they have again approached it I in the wrong way and taken it one step too far...

Jo - it was at Pinkpop when he asked the crowd to say FUCK YOU...

I wonder after reading the last couple of pages, am I the only one who is rather cool and stand-by with this new dress code thing?

While I agree with many of the concerns expressed here, I can't help thinking there is an overreaction over something we yet have to receive further info about.

The way I see it -or at least try to decipher Crash's message- is that apparently, I repeat, apparently, the band lays hands on something new to try out, something like a visual, cinematic experiment. Nowhere do I read that whoever refuses to comply with said strict dress code is going to be an outcast in the upcoming tours.
As far as I can tell from the 13 concerts I had the pleasure and luck to attend to, even when there was dress code in some of them, the band never, ever gave any dirty looks to the part of the audience that didn't follow the code. On the contrary, they were all welcome. Never, in their meet and greets did they scold anyone just because he came with a casual outfit to shake their hand, and I'm saying all this being one of those who don't usually like to comply to such codes and if I decide to carry a different gear, I know well I won't feel any different from those who chose to go with the code. Plus as far as I can tell, the band never said: wear this, or die. Perhaps the one and only time they may have said this, was with the LA Summit, and the yearbook. Which makes perfect sense.

I don't think the band will think less of me as a fan if I appear with an Anathema t-shirt for a change (something I keep saying I will do one day haha), in one of their shows.

I don't really see this as a chance to eliminate individuality, just because they set up a slightly different status on the dress code. As I said, maybe they simply want to try something out. Why it's any different than the massive colour codes in the Opening ceremonies of the Olympic Games? Hundreds, thousands of people take part in something which basically promotes global unity, peace, culture and athletic spirit. Does this eliminate individuality in any form or shape? It's exactly like they ask from the spectators in the stadium to hold on flashlights and turn them on in certain parts of the ceremony. So in other words? Maybe this has nothing to do with losing your individuality.

Now if we want to talk about those who will go berserk and batshit crazy to follow every single word of the band, well I'd like to think that the band after 9-10 years now knows exactly what kind of fanbase has to deal with, and they are aware that there will always be those who will read too much into the message and will cross the line of ridicule.

I'm just saying, why don't we simply wait to see a bigger part of the whole process unfold before we go "fuck you band, you won't tell me what to wear"?

Do I think the new code is somewhat strict? Yes, I do. But I cannot rush to judge the band and/or express my disagreement until I see the bigger picture of what they intend to do.

...and I repeat... I'm one who doesn't follow the band blindly to whatever they come up with, I often criticise them when I personally find something wrong, or too much, and at the same time I happen to "run" the GR Echelon team.

So Beat It... Just Beat It... for now. :-P



Tell her to join the Westboro Churtch. It's certain beyond any doubt she will find the true light in there.



I agree, Gary. <3

as long as they don't ask us to shave our head, i'm fine

Sinead? iz dat u?

If that was the case I wouldn't mind it at all. But now I read words like 'religious' and 'dress code' not 'visual' and 'experiement'. You must admit there are many weirdos who may take it too seriously.


...and during concerts, sport events etc. But the all do that because THEY want it - they 'support' national team by wearing clothes in national colours but not because the capitan of the theam says so.


That's why I think the ideas of clothing should be left to the fans.


Erm... no By posting something the band provokes us to discussion about it. I may wait when nothing has been said.

For sure El - the concert 30STM concert we'll see ech other - you and me in Anathema tees

Quoting your quote -


Ya' huh. Picture it. Me, as Mr. Roarke.



Anybody know where a nice, ecumenical minded Protestant can buy an inexpensive black burqa? I'm good for the white iron-on glyphs, thanks.

It just seems like the umpteenth example of "here's my bright shiny idea that I thought about for all of five seconds" turning out to be not such a well though-out plan at all.

The difference between colour nights and this black crap is, as Larissa pointed out, everyone had loads of wiggle room to decide how they were going to interpret the colour night thing (or if they were even going to participate at all). While there is (for all logical people) room to not take part in this, it has a far more regimented and dictated feel to it than the colour nights ever did. I know regimented, I grew up on a military base.

Everyone fell all over themselves when the song title Blitzkrieg was named but no one sees anything to worry about with everyone looking the same and sticking to a very strict dress code. Really? How is wearing all black for promo days and concerts going to be anymore of an easy sell to people than the CD titled This is War or (back when it was still a possibility) a single called Blitzkrieg?

Has no one else here read The Wave? Because that starts out rather innocent and non-conformist as well, to my recollection.

"nothing compares, nothing compares, to youuuuuuuuuuuuu"
how's my fav neighboroug?

It's always like this: band say something > it's just a little info > people start to think further without any other info > maybe they're wrong > tadaa! overreaction
But still, it's confusing. I'm hope they will tell us more about their plans erm... soon.

But if they really want to do this 'all black' thingie and the red will be "limited to the previously mentioned symbols and icons", then I really want a black wristband with red glyphics

Which leads me to further believe that this band 1) either doesn't know their fanbase at all or they would be more specific about things 2) doesn't give a toss in the least about how we react to things 3) likes poking us with sticks to see what happens or 4) is completely detached from the entire process and/or autistic.

Some watched the movie

Here I found The Wave mentioned in the second thread on the boards

my thoughts exactly, Jo.


True, maybe that different people mention the same thing in separated topics regarding different elements (the hive and the dresscode) should give them an idea, shouldn't it?