373 replies to this topic

[wildhorses]

AsperaAdAstra70, on 05 January 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

I hope they can return to the studio and make a GOOD album the way they want to make it.

I wouldn't have used the word “good”. They did good work on the 3 albums. Now, they are so different in style that it is normal to like one more than another. Though, I'm wondering how business actually influenced ABL.
With TIW, I first thought they were actually taking some risks since it was tailored for live show, even if it sounds more pop than rock. Now, I'm no longer sure it was so risky...

I don't think either that TIW isn't the way they wanted it to be. Actually, in an interview, sorry can't remember which one, they said that with TIW they thought to have finally really found their own sound and the way they have been talking about it, it would tend to make me think that they were even fully in phase with it artistically speaking.

AsperaAdAstra70, on 05 January 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

They have a huge market to sell to but they are not NIKE or Walmart - the goods they are selling is art, in the form of music, which EVERYONE has an emotional and much more personal tie to than a damn pair of shoes, as should they.

Music isn't emotional for everybody and most people are no longer that faithful to a rock band.
We really now live in an industrial universe. Most of the people don't buy albums anymore, they buy songs of thousand different artists. Some have thousands of songs in their MP3 or whatever. I'm the first one to feel sad about this, but music have become a pair of shoes I'm afraid. How many new artists get big success and disappear that fast, “replaced” by a new one?
To stay alive in this field now, I guess you need to bring either something strong and different and a solid communication strategy and/or shock regularly.

AsperaAdAstra70, on 05 January 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

The music is #1, the fans should be #2 and if those 2 things are treated with integrity, respect and honesty - the money will come in vast abundance.

I don't think so. That is utopia.

shannon leto, on 05 January 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

the fact is, ladies and gents, more means more, and bigger means bigger. more exposure means more sales. bigger tours means bigger buses/caravans. more expenses means more business needs to be conducted. the industry is a business. it's always been money driven -- especially now that they've proven themselves to be worthy cash cows when need be, 30stm is going to continually release new merch and offer things for money that a lot of us probably won't think is wise, or whatever. but there are folks that will buy it all and eagerly await their next move, release or offer.

So true!

[AsperaAdAstra70]

shannon leto, on 05 January 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

understood. glad to see you're still here instead of becoming a deserter like a few folks have already chosen to do.

but. they aren't ALL about the money lately. that's more than a little unfair. many bands are in the same situation/predicament, without even the courtesy of a lawsuit to suggest their ticket/merch/meet & greet package prices. it just really looks like the price issue's just more prevalent with 30stm now more than ever because of 1 - the lawsuit and 2 - vyrt, #300, etc etc ad nauseum. how many folks would be making as big a stink about this had there not been a lawsuit and these things had been introduced gradually, or if the GTs weren't as expensive or had been options all along? you can't with good conscience tell me that everything was peachy keen, no one had problems with the merch/quality of merch/prices of merch, ticket prices, etc before the TIW era and the legal woes now unfortunately attached to it. so what, they added a few things that some folks aren't too excited about, and would prefer not to buy. what's new about it? how many people were crying heresy when they unveiled some of the ABL merch and everyone found out it wasn't on par with the ST culture?

I don't think it's unfair at all - just take a moment to look at the tweets they send out.  Wasn't bothered by the VyRT thing at all - I was at the show on the 6th and back home by the 7th - would have purchased it - but didn't have the time.  I did buy the Unplugged thing - I would rather have the whole thing on DVD and hope it comes out that way and I will purchase that too. Was a little disappointed that it wasn't in it's entirety but who cares for $5?  It's more their (his) constant buy, buy, buy communication that bothers me - coupled with the high prices of things. It's the attitude. I've only been around since ABL - I'm not affected by how things may have "changed" that much - more so by how they are now.

I.R.A, on 05 January 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

Get your heads out of your asses. If the band were all about the money, seeing where they are at now, they would ditch you altogether.
Seriously what is it that you guys expect in return. I'm being serious. A welcoming orgy? A quick hand job. Seriously you guys act as if you made this band...oh wait i forgot the echelon own all of their rights. my bad i'll step out.

The fans do make a band relevant and able to keep making music. Every band. All I want is quality music and quality shows and a band that's driven by art before money. Maybe this is unreasonable in this day and age but I don't think so.

wildhorses, on 05 January 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

I wouldn't have used the word “good”. They did good work on the 3 albums. Now, they are so different in style that it is normal to like one more than another. Though, I'm wondering how business actually influenced ABL.
With TIW, I first thought they were actually taking some risks since it was tailored for live show, even if it sounds more pop than rock. Now, I'm no longer sure it was so risky...

I don't think either that TIW isn't the way they wanted it to be. Actually, in an interview, sorry can't remember which one, they said that with TIW they thought to have finally really found their own sound and the way they have been talking about it, it would tend to make me think that they were even fully in phase with it artistically speaking.

I agree whole heartedly and if you read back you will see that I said I was not talking about the creative process in MAKING TIW - I was referring to the bad shows. And there were so many....but I chose to believe that they needed to do that many shows in order to fix things financially with EMI. It doesn't matter now anyway - the tour is over. I was lucky enough to see 6 shows in 6 different cities. 4 were fantastic, 2 sucked. Still had a blast.  
I LIKE TIW.


Music isn't emotional for everybody and most people are no longer that faithful to a rock band.
We really now live in an industrial universe. Most of the people don't buy albums anymore, they buy songs of thousand different artists. Some have thousands of songs in their MP3 or whatever. I'm the first one to feel sad about this, but music have become a pair of shoes I'm afraid. How many new artists get big success and disappear that fast, “replaced” by a new one?
To stay alive in this field now, I guess you need to bring either something strong and different and a solid communication strategy and/or shock regularly.

I think you're wrong but respect your thoughts.


I don't think so. That is utopia.

Not quite Utopia - there have been bands that could manage it. If it is Utopia - then I can keep dreaming.

[shannon leto's lezbean]

AsperaAdAstra70, on 06 January 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

I don't think it's unfair at all - just take a moment to look at the tweets they send out.  Wasn't bothered by the VyRT thing at all - I was at the show on the 6th and back home by the 7th - would have purchased it - but didn't have the time.  I did buy the Unplugged thing - I would rather have the whole thing on DVD and hope it comes out that way and I will purchase that too. Was a little disappointed that it wasn't in it's entirety but who cares for $5?  It's more their (his) constant buy, buy, buy communication that bothers me - coupled with the high prices of things. It's the attitude. I've only been around since ABL - I'm not affected by how things may have "changed" that much - more so by how they are now.

i think it's pretty unfair to assume that they're really only pushing for money, exposure, "buy buy buy", and that they've suddenly totally changed now etc just because they have more avenues to communicate and advertise with than they did back then. who knows -- if twitter, a more evolved fb, movie/tv commercial song deals, etc were around back then for them to play with, we'd all probably be used to all the posts, tweets, etc and wouldn't be complaining nearly as much as just ignoring it all. just a sign of the times, for me.

speaking of twitter -- i don't use it, would rather not participate in what has essentially to me become facebook without the extra stuff and i'm happier being able to limit how much i see from certain folks in my newsfeed. more in line with regards to my previous post, i'm more of a channel changer than a commercial complainer, so even if i were on twitter i'd probably just bypass all the bullshit and read what i'd actually be interested in reading. i'd like to think of these things as something of junk mail from a trusted source, lmao i really just feel like they're just trying to sell their stuff in a way that's feasible for them since they can't exactly stand around at the merch tent like they used to. if they can sell it in a way where they don't have to overexert themselves and further let the music suffer, so be it. i don't mind at all.

until it becomes obligatory. then i'll start minding

ps - i've been around since the tail end of 2005, first show in 2006 at a club that held maybe 100-150 people, latest show in april 2011 at universal studios playing to hundreds more. i immensely enjoyed both shows and walked out of both venues with a smile on my face, though i didn't get a signing line and bus time like i did 5 years prior. i've just expected things to change, and that i couldn't always do the things i did and say the things i said as they got bigger. hell, i even had a conversation with shannon in late 2009 about not being able to follow them around like i used to because i had a grown-up job, and i was in a different place in my life than i was in 06 when i started. and it basically went like this: they know and appreciate when people *can* come out and support them, and that they do understand that their fans have evolving lives, and that it's more important to make a path for and continually develop yourself. then i hugged him so hard he lifted off the ground a little, lmao.

they acknowledge and accept the change in frequency and support of their fans, i just feel like we should be able to do the same. i can't say that i've really personally been all that affected by how they are "now" as opposed to "then," but i suppose that's a "to each their own" thing. neither of us is more right than the other. i can agree to disagree with differing views and reasons

[AsperaAdAstra70]

You are lucky you were around back then. I'm not interested in hanging out by busses so missing those sorts of times doesn't bother me. I did have the opportunity to meet them in a free sign line in December 2010 - that was fantastic. I used to be on twitter quite a lot back in early 09 but am rarely there now - just to say hey to friends and sometimes tweet one band member or another. While back in the good old days of new twitter I received a few RT's from Jared - but they were like friendly woo hoo! sort of tweets. Now and for a long time they seriously only RT someone if they say "I bought this...." or "I bought that...." or "I voted for...."  it really does give one the feeling that a fan is only worthy when they buy, buy, buy.....it creates a sense that money is all they care about. Which is one reason among many that I stopped getting on twitter.  Glad we can agree to disagree too! :-D

[I.R.A]

AsperaAdAstra70, on 06 January 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

The fans do make a band relevant and able to keep making music. Every band. All I want is quality music and quality shows and a band that's driven by art before money. Maybe this is unreasonable in this day and age but I don't think so.

Yea and look how far they've gotten. AND look at what you have experienced, recieved, learned (if anything) or got back in return. They have great quality music and i admit once great quality shows. They ARE driven by art just like most bands and please don't sit there behind a computer screen acting like you know exactly what this band or any band are driven by, mmmkay. Become a musician, put yourself in their shoes then you have the right of a valid opinion. Its never unreasonable you got that right, what's unreasonable is you assuming shit that you have no idea about.

I want to know what your definition of sellout is. You really believe the band are all about the money? seriously? you don't think there is something in them that is about the music, the art? You don't think that deep down in Jared's ruthless heart that the band are happy with their success and not because they are getting dollars up the ass or do you and that's why you think they are some money hungry sluts? so you overlook their talent, their potential, their MUSIC because of tweets you've read, fangirls they reply to, ignorant messages they block, bad reviews you've read about live shows? Are you mad because you can't afford their high priced merchandise, packages, ect where most can? If they can sell it than they are going to. high prices arent stopping most people these days so why not. The band know who the naive fans are and if the girls are going to empty out their bank account so be it. You don't have too. everyone works for money. the key is to find a reason to live for it. Its selfish of any of you to assume otherwise.

the band made three amazing albums, and they want everyone to hear it. The only way to do that is promotion even if they promote it in a way you don't appreciate. They've had tremendous amount of success, theyve had great live shows. If the band are happy with it then let them. Starting underground and going mainstream is a natural progression for bands. You guys helped them out and theyve thanked you. Plenty.

When they start talking about selling out and doing remixes with justin bieber and Usher then you have something to worry about but until then make it about the music. Then you will see the art. But letting Jared and his douchebag ways which are never going to end, on twitter and spamming facebook and shit bother you then you are here for the wrong reasons.

So who are really the obsessed fans here, the ones who give a shit about a band selling out so much it breaks their heart or a bunch of twelve year old misunderstood group of chicks who will grow out of it.

Now as for those who think giving the band compliments, no one loves every single thing that the band does like you “atleast we don’t follow the band blindly” people think. Atleast open your eyes to both sides of the equation. All of you personally sound like you have grudges against the frontman and this is where i have the problem. You are either in it for the music/art or the band. and it seems you guys are just in it for the band, their image, this dead beat family shit and not their music.

Jared this, Jared that.

[shannon leto's lezbean]

AsperaAdAstra70, on 06 January 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

You are lucky you were around back then. I'm not interested in hanging out by busses so missing those sorts of times doesn't bother me. I did have the opportunity to meet them in a free sign line in December 2010 - that was fantastic. I used to be on twitter quite a lot back in early 09 but am rarely there now - just to say hey to friends and sometimes tweet one band member or another. While back in the good old days of new twitter I received a few RT's from Jared - but they were like friendly woo hoo! sort of tweets. Now and for a long time they seriously only RT someone if they say "I bought this...." or "I bought that...." or "I voted for...."  it really does give one the feeling that a fan is only worthy when they buy, buy, buy.....it creates a sense that money is all they care about. Which is one reason among many that I stopped getting on twitter.  Glad we can agree to disagree too! :-D

very very lucky, and also very very broke from only working part-time jobs lol i am still very much envious of those who were fortunate enough to get introduced and experience the band before me, too. but i very much value the times i have and will get to just go and lose myself in what still very much makes me happy

[sueloves30stm]

I've wanted to reply to this thread for a while but always changed my mind. Sometimes I feel I completely agree with the people who say it's all about money recently but the other times I feel like those people are wrong. After reading your posts I think I'm in the middle.

I remember 3-4 years ago how much I wanted to see the band live although I knew I had no chance because I live in a country (Hungary) where the band was (still is) not enough popular. But the TIW era came and they came to Vienna (which is in a neighbour country but close enough to me) and they came to Hungary 3 TIMES!!! (only to festivals but I'm not complaining). So in that way I'm happy that they got that "big" that they were able to go here.

On the other hand, after I saw them 5 times (it's not too much but considering I'm just a university student with little money and less free time it is a lot) I got to the point that I couldn't enjoy the last show because I felt it was just a "routine" and everything was too organized. I know after 300 shows they learned how to run the concerts from the first til the last minutes, I understand that. But I clearly saw from the first row how the GT people were only invited to go on stage who obviosly paid a lot, and everybody else was like invisible, and how everything was just too arranged. I missed the spontaneity I felt earlier. (And I don't mean I was desperate to go on stage during kings and queens, I don't need that.) It's interesting that you compare the recent tour to the ABL era and I'm just talking about the difference between the start and the end of this tour.

I don't like this new marketing strategy, I don't like the GTs - to pay that much to say hello to the band members, it is totally absurd. I don't like either the words "Echelon" and "family" used that much, though I never considered myself an echelon just a khmm "very obsessed fan" XD I don't think that it's the band's fault, though. It's just the result of growing to the next level of popularity. Have you seen the Hive website? I thought it was just a new idea of the band promoting themselves and include the fans in a way, but no, I admit I know nothing about business. It is just a company whose first "client" was 30stm. Or is it Jared's 100000th side project? XD It doesn't matter after all. I didn't buy golden tickets, I didn't buy merch because I didn't want to.

Thinking about all this I also realized I'm not a teenager any more. I grew up and now I can see things a bit clearer than before. Of course, it feels different than it felt some time ago. People change, circumstances change. I still love their music and that's enough.


I'm sorry for the bad English and the long, chaotic text, you can skip and ignore it if you want.

[I.R.A]

Too make everyone happy i don't think anyone likes the new marketing strategy. That's settled now.

[CandyO]

Potnez, on 04 January 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

What you're saying is that the creation could be somehow compromised by money, but it is ultimately the artist's decision. Is that right?

Must be hard staying completly objective and putting the best you can in your art without any business considerations influencing it. Especially if your creations are having some success.

Maybe it's also about people's interpretation of the artist's work. I guess that if you put your creation out there to be seen and judged, you want some feedback? But then, what should the artist do about these opinions? Adapting his work, letting it be influenced by other people? Or maybe just taking the best of it and call it "inspiration"?

Yes. The possibility is there, isn't it? When the artist is creating simply because they feel the drive to create, then there is a certain freedom from any other thought including money. As opposed to when money *is* the end goal/hope/plan and then the piece can indeed be influenced by the end goal. And I agree, it has to be hard if not impossible, to make something as cerebral as "art" with any hope of selling and NOT be swayed by that, even just a little.

Ahh the old feedback tiger! One can nod and say thank you and dismiss it, or take it and move in another direction "inspiration" or maybe a combination of both. I told the story years ago of someone who looked at my work and said "it's really cool but you should paint in pastels" and I said "no, maybe YOU should paint in pastels" and he said "but I don't paint" and I said "well okay then" :> But the pastel thing stayed in my head and, I admit it, I worked some more pastel type stuff into some canvases despite myself. Bastard. Hahaa.

_niña_, on 04 January 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

still regarding the market. we do promo stuff and give them away for free. that's the way i know since i've been here. amazingly, enough, when i post photos of these old promo materials, someone wants to buy them.  somehow, this "new" market" i encountered locally does not expect anything for free. though they will be more than happy to accept free stuff, their initial reaction was to offer payment. so, there really is a great demand for MARS stuff.

of course, in the honor of "The Echelon Way," if i have some, i still give them away for free.

That's an interesting aspect of what the market is now. All the free promo we made, were encouraged to make, and nobody ever offered/expected to pay for any of it. There were surely trades going on, but no money exchanged hands. I find it fascinating that the people you offered free promo materials to "expected" to pay for it. That is simply the nature of the beast now. Buy It. It's what they know.

sueloves30stm, on 06 January 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Have you seen the Hive website? I thought it was just a new idea of the band promoting themselves and include the fans in a way, but no, I admit I know nothing about business. It is just a company whose first "client" was 30stm. Or is it Jared's 100000th side project? XD It doesn't matter after all. I didn't buy golden tickets, I didn't buy merch because I didn't want to.

The Hive is the 100000th side project. Ready to take on new clients. The Hive was obviously successful. I personally took a step back from promo tho' since there was a paid staff to do it, but they sure did know how to whip others into a promo frenzy. And it worked.  
I haven't looked lately - are Shannon and Antoine on the roster yet?

I would like to see the discussion go back to Business and 30 Seconds To Mars and Art/Music + Business How To Do It. A great many of my ponderings and questions are not so much based on exactly what the band has done but also what I am struggling with internally as an artist. I am trying to find a road map. But there seems to be a lot of shutting down of peoples thoughts on which marketing tactics work and which fail, which products are desired and which are overkill, which price points are successful and which are too low/high, and what the overall impression of an aggressive marketing campaign is to various people.

Mars makes music for a living thus Mars is a business. Now, can we talk about the different aspects of the business or should we pretend there's no money involved and not discuss it?

[Mistressred]

Well the band have now confirmed that they are not ... I say NOT calling it quits, so put away the koolaid.

We can talk about if the two of the still staying single, converts to more sales....
We can talk about the return of the guyliner, should it make a comeback??
Did Jared cut those t shirts apart so they would be torn from his body with less trama to his person?
What does the skirt mean really?
Is the mix up of warbrobe intended to appeal to fans on all continents?
Was the hint of a breakup marketing genius on the bands part?
Should the band continue to ask for help in promotion? What is asking too much? Did they used to supply flyers,but now we print off our own stuff?
The Hive? Should it become a permanent structure for fans to visit and feel close to the band?
Should it open up again before the next album?
If Jared put out a b side album with many songs that never made it, would you buy it?
If I like my vinyls and packaged cd's does it make me a bad person?
If i go see Nickleback will you shun me foreva??

[_niña_]

CandyO, on 06 January 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

That's an interesting aspect of what the market is now. All the free promo we made, were encouraged to make, and nobody ever offered/expected to pay for any of it. There were surely trades going on, but no money exchanged hands. I find it fascinating that the people you offered free promo materials to "expected" to pay for it. That is simply the nature of the beast now. Buy It. It's what they know.

i thought they've gone nuts! LOL! and they thought there's a catch. then i said it's one aspect of the [ECHELON] most will not understand.

i'm grateful for those times... when we meet people who gives away so much and expects nothing back. and the only reason was "just because..."

the ultimate craziness was when someone suggested that i sell this,
i just made this 'cause it's from the one and only show here and i am such a girl! LOL!

isn't it against to law to sell without permit... duh!


---------------
answering some....

Mistressred, on 06 January 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Was the hint of a breakup marketing genius on the bands part?

nah... they just miss the drama. didn't fool me one bit 'cause the promo the hive is doing contradicts the break-up blah.

Quote

Should the band continue to ask for help in promotion? What is asking too much? Did they used to supply flyers,but now we print off our own stuff?

i guess, it's just a matter of one's willingness to extend help when asked.

Quote

The Hive? Should it become a permanent structure for fans to visit and feel close to the band?

before : Mars Army > [ECHELON] > MARS  
now : Mars Army = Echelon > The Hive >>>>>>>>>> MARS  (nope, not that close. )

Quote

If Jared put out a b side album with many songs that never made it, would you buy it?

only if it's from ThirtySecondsToMars. 'cause those with just his name are really expensive.

Quote

If I like my vinyls and packaged cd's does it make me a bad person?

if it makes you bad, then i am too. LOL!

[MyThoughtsNotYours]

Mistressred, on 06 January 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Well the band have now confirmed that they are not ... I say NOT calling it quits, so put away the koolaid.

1.  We can talk about if the two of the still staying single, converts to more sales....
2.  We can talk about the return of the guyliner, should it make a comeback??
3.  Did Jared cut those t shirts apart so they would be torn from his body with less trama to his person?
4.  What does the skirt mean really?
5.  Is the mix up of warbrobe intended to appeal to fans on all continents?
6.  Was the hint of a breakup marketing genius on the bands part?
7.  Should the band continue to ask for help in promotion? What is asking too much? Did they used to supply flyers,but now we print off our own stuff?
8.  The Hive? Should it become a permanent structure for fans to visit and feel close to the band?
9.  Should it open up again before the next album?
10.  If Jared put out a b side album with many songs that never made it, would you buy it?
11.  If I like my vinyls and packaged cd's does it make me a bad person?
12.  If i go see Nickleback will you shun me foreva??

1.  If you are asking if the Leto brothers being single increases the bands popularity, I would have to say yes.  Unfortunately, their personal lives are relevant to the current fan base.
2.  No, absolutely not, never, under any circumstances.
3.  Interesting theory, or its just that he likes to show some skin. Speaking of which, how many days in our "no nipple showing" Guiness World Record? Anybody keeping count?
4.  I don't have a clue on that one.  I don't like wearing skirts and I'm a female so I have no idea why a man would want to.
5.  Probably.  Or the guys are just confused after living out of suitcases for so long.
6.  Yes, it drove alot of the crazier fans into a frenzy.
7.  If they stay with EMI then no, let the record company do it.  If they go independant then yes.  Can't really answer the second part of the question because I think that "too much" is going to depend on each individual's perception.  From what I understand, they used to supply promo materials to fans in the market areas that management wanted to target, otherwise you had to make your own. Now, everybody has to make their own. Is it because the promo is no longer necessary and so spending money on it is not a good business decision or is it because the fans now are more willing to use their own money?
8.  As I understand it, The Hive is now an advertising and promotion business with more clients (or looking for more clients) than just 30STM.  So I don't think that it could really be used as a fan hangout. However, it certainly could still be a building used by the band for promo appearances, mini acoustic shows of new material, press conferences with their fans, etc.
9.  Yes, see above answer.
10.  Absolutely.
11.  No, I'm a bad person too then.  I have to have packaged cds to play in my Jeep.  Its very old and the cd player won't play the ones that I burn off my computer. Besides, I like looking at the booklets that come with cds.
12.  I won't shun you, but maybe suggest therapy? Or music appreciation classes?

[Coco Converse]

CandyO, on 06 January 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

The Hive is the 100000th side project. Ready to take on new clients. The Hive was obviously successful. I personally took a step back from promo tho' since there was a paid staff to do it, but they sure did know how to whip others into a promo frenzy. And it worked.  
I haven't looked lately - are Shannon and Antoine on the roster yet?

Just to clarify... The Hive = VyRT = Sisyphus Productions = The One and Only Golden Tickets Inc. = The Band ?

Here is another individual domain, based on one of the side projects incorporated with the band: TheOneAndOnlyGoldenTickets.com
I took a look at this website a couple of months ago, where they still had golden tickets for sale listed for shows back in the summer... the site has definitely undergone a makeover, one in which appears to not be completely finished yet? Case in point, all of these blah blah blahs listed under the page for Thirty Seconds to Mars... they still also have package one golden tickets available for purchase for the 12/6 show at the Hammerstein. Ha, or unless that indicates they're doing another concert at the Hammerstein in eleven months?

I am going to assume that TheOneAndOnlyGoldenTickets.com is going to become some sort of online store or something soon? There is information listed in regards to returns, and free shipping available for orders over $99? Golden Ticket Limited Edition Merchandise?

[CandyO]

Mistressred, on 06 January 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Well the band have now confirmed that they are not ... I say NOT calling it quits, so put away the koolaid.

too many suicide threats on twitter perhaps?
Good list of questions with a range of serious to silly. The last one killed me.  

MyThoughtsNotYours, on 07 January 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

12.  I won't shun you, but maybe suggest therapy? Or music appreciation classes?

Good list of answers. I particularly agree with 1. [remember the broo-ha-ha when Tomo got engaged and then married? The Leto's will, sadly, have to hide any personal relationships in order to avoid death threats to the significant other and/or keep the majority of TIW girlies interested.] 6., 7., 8., 9., 10. [if it was Mars B sides] 11. and 12. hahaa.

_niña_, on 07 January 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

i thought they've gone nuts! LOL! and they thought there's a catch. then i said it's one aspect of the [ECHELON] most will not understand.

i'm grateful for those times... when we meet people who gives away so much and expects nothing back. and the only reason was "just because..."

the ultimate craziness was when someone suggested that i sell this,
i just made this 'cause it's from the one and only show here and i am such a girl! LOL!

isn't it against to law to sell without permit... duh!

*nod* and *nod*
I will need to let the youtube buffer to see the whole thing but that looks super fun and very professional. Well done - that is a personal keepsake to be proud of. Beats the shit out of my Mars Box.

Coco Converse, on 08 January 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

Just to clarify... The Hive = VyRT = Sisyphus Productions = The One and Only Golden Tickets Inc. = The Band ?

Here is another individual domain, based on one of the side projects incorporated with the band: TheOneAndOnlyGoldenTickets.com
I took a look at this website a couple of months ago, where they still had golden tickets for sale listed for shows back in the summer... the site has definitely undergone a makeover, one in which appears to not be completely finished yet? Case in point, all of these blah blah blahs listed under the page for Thirty Seconds to Mars... they still also have package one golden tickets available for purchase for the 12/6 show at the Hammerstein. Ha, or unless that indicates they're doing another concert at the Hammerstein in eleven months?

I am going to assume that TheOneAndOnlyGoldenTickets.com is going to become some sort of online store or something soon? There is information listed in regards to returns, and free shipping available for orders over $99? Golden Ticket Limited Edition Merchandise?

Correct. 99.44% correct cause I like buffer room. All of those in that first line = the band.

Interesting find on TheOneAndOnlyGoldenTickets.com - the domain has a proxy registrant, which they have been doing lately, but based on the offerings to future clients on ThisIsTheHive.net [VIP ticketing] it makes sense to have a separate site rather than try to run those on multiple client websites as they did for the mars tickets. One central  website to offer VIP tickets for various clients for various gigs will be much easier to manage. And perhaps merchandise as well. Setting up their own music today maybe.

pssst Hive I can help you with the code to make your contact email clickable on thisisthehive.net AND defy spam bot farming at the same time. Give me a shout. I'll help for free. Just because.

A thought: Could it be that those of us who are Pre-War do not respond favorably to some of the newer marketing/products simply because we are not the typical consumers? By admittance by most, and to quote one of my favorite films, "We ARE the weirdos mister". It's kind of why we were all drawn into this in the first place, right? The geeks, the nerds, the misfits, the dreamers... The Land Of Misfit Toys.

I am not a label girl. I do not feel the urge to buy the latest and greatest thing just because it is the latest and greatest. I am not easily swayed by advertisements. I am not the typical consumer. Perhaps that is why I, and some of you out there reading this right now, turn away from the current marketing. Does that mean the marketing is necessarily bad? No. It means that the marketing is reaching someone other than myself. And there are more people not like me than there are who are. It's a numbers game.

There was something else but I forget...

[AmanitaVirosa]

CandyO, on 08 January 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Good list of answers. I particularly agree with 1. [remember the broo-ha-ha when Tomo got engaged and then married? The Leto's will, sadly, have to hide any personal relationships in order to avoid death threats to the significant other and/or keep the majority of TIW girlies interested.]

Don't ask, don't tell. *nods* That'll work.

CandyO, on 08 January 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

There was something else but I forget...

Selective memory is an asset. We should make it one of the official Ekelonz merit badges.

[DavinaMars]

Basically everything is a business. whether or not they had an actual interest in the fans is only known by the band. they will certainly care to an extent about fans because we are what keeps them going. 30 seconds to mars are likely to be in the music field of work as it is what interests them and people do need to have jobs. so turning a hobby into a business is a great thing to be able to do. they have created a family and a sort of brand, this gives the band its unique selling point which is what businesses thrive on. they have fully developed iconography which is appearing everywhere. the more things you see the more the band is being promoted. it is a lifestyle for them, and we are involved in it. whether or not they are doing it to be a thriving business or to do it purely for us is unknown, only the band know. we have our own ideas about the band, we don't really know the facts so we cant really make any assumptions.

[wildhorses]

CandyO, on 06 January 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

I told the story years ago of someone who looked at my work and said "it's really cool but you should paint in pastels" and I said "no, maybe YOU should paint in pastels" and he said "but I don't paint" and I said "well okay then" :> But the pastel thing stayed in my head and, I admit it, I worked some more pastel type stuff into some canvases despite myself. Bastard. Hahaa.

Which makes me think about an aspect that I had never taken into consideration before.  
Why money couldn't interfere with the creativity process and actually leads to some interesting new artistic perceptions? Usually, when you're stuck to do what you wanted to do in the first place because of technical difficulties, you find other creative solutions that can even deviate the final result from you're first main idea. Can't business also be a data in the creative process where you have to find other creative solutions to fulfill the artist's position. But then, how do you manage to put things in perspective?
We tend to think that everything that result from money is the pet peeve but couldn't it also play a part in the evolution of creativity? Of course, where is the limit? How can we define this limit? How do we analyze if an artist lost one's creative identity for profit (considering that the identity is also in constant evolution)? I'm thinking about artists like Damien Hirst for instance or in the old times Michelangelo. How can we define that the driving is still creativity, researches? And even so, if profit plays a dynamic role in the creation process, it is still creativity, right? After all, art is a reflection of a society and if one main face of this society is business, no surprises that it can be an underlying theme?
For a band like 30stm who's been showing a "vital" interest in creativity, would it be possible for them to lose sight of what once seemed unwavering?

Mistressred, on 06 January 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Should the band continue to ask for help in promotion? What is asking too much? Did they used to supply flyers,but now we print off our own stuff?

I don't think they really need it the same way they used to.
I guess the interest now with echelon promo for the band is in getting some inspirations and involving fans = faithful fans = incomes arising. I also hope that they enjoy this interactivity and find real artistic interest.
I'll speak about what happened in France, but once they signed a contract with a popular radio, this is a question that I asked myself. Now, when you speak about 30 Seconds To Mars, people not longer say "what is "tur...ty secondes ...march"? (yeah! French people are definitely not friend with the language lol!). Now, it's "Oh yes, Jared Leto's band!" or "Oh! you're a Jared Leto's fan!" About a years ago, I was still introducing a rock band and a universe, now I'm more justifying their credibility as a rock band as we can't deny that the tabloid figure kind of harm the musicians, especially among the the male sex.
For sure, this is incredible how things can change quickly with just one choice.
In previous posts, we were talking about choices they make. Well, that's my point of view, but to me this one was a good choice for the wallet, and definitely helped to sell the french tour, but was two steps back for the image of the band.
But eventually, it was not especially a bad change for promotion. It give the occasion to take another approach and focus a bit less on the basic flyers and posters. Working on visual performances is another interesting approach that arouse curiosity and questions in different way. But with visual performance, this is double-edged as it is not always easy to organize and the result is not always 100% worthy to the idea.
But I'd say yes, that might still useful.

[CandyO]

AmanitaVirosa, on 08 January 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

Don't ask, don't tell. *nods* That'll work.

Selective memory is an asset. We should make it one of the official Ekelonz merit badges.

*nod*
oh yes merit badges TO PUT ON THE UNIFORMS!!1!

DavinaMars, on 10 January 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Basically everything is a business. whether or not they had an actual interest in the fans is only known by the band. they will certainly care to an extent about fans because we are what keeps them going. 30 seconds to mars are likely to be in the music field of work as it is what interests them and people do need to have jobs. so turning a hobby into a business is a great thing to be able to do. they have created a family and a sort of brand, this gives the band its unique selling point which is what businesses thrive on. they have fully developed iconography which is appearing everywhere. the more things you see the more the band is being promoted. it is a lifestyle for them, and we are involved in it. whether or not they are doing it to be a thriving business or to do it purely for us is unknown, only the band know. we have our own ideas about the band, we don't really know the facts so we cant really make any assumptions.

Bolded
1. Well, not everything is necessarily a business. Let me rephrase that; not everything is necessarily a business for profit. The local animal shelter funded by donations is probably just happy to break even while saving some animals. :>
2. Yes. Doing what one loves and making enough money to live and thrive is the dream.
3. Well now, pretty sure that if the band was doing "it" purely for "us" then all music would be free, all gigs would be free and tee shirts would be available for shipping costs only.

wildhorses, on 10 January 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Which makes me think about an aspect that I had never taken into consideration before.  
Why money couldn't interfere with the creativity process and actually leads to some interesting new artistic perceptions? Usually, when you're stuck to do what you wanted to do in the first place because of technical difficulties, you find other creative solutions that can even deviate the final result from you're first main idea. Can't business also be a data in the creative process where you have to find other creative solutions to fulfill the artist's position. But then, how do you manage to put things in perspective?
We tend to think that everything that result from money is the pet peeve but couldn't it also play a part in the evolution of creativity? Of course, where is the limit? How can we define this limit? How do we analyze if an artist lost one's creative identity for profit (considering that the identity is also in constant evolution)? I'm thinking about artists like Damien Hirst for instance or in the old times Michelangelo. How can we define that the driving is still creativity, researches? And even so, if profit plays a dynamic role in the creation process, it is still creativity, right? After all, art is a reflection of a society and if one main face of this society is business, no surprises that it can be an underlying theme?
For a band like 30stm who's been showing a "vital" interest in creativity, would it be possible for them to lose sight of what once seemed unwavering?


In previous posts, we were talking about choices they make. Well, that's my point of view, but to me this one was a good choice for the wallet, and definitely helped to sell the french tour, but was two steps back for the image of the band.
But eventually, it was not especially a bad change for promotion.

First bit: interesting. If we think back to various inventions that have shaped our world as we currently know it, how many were driven purely by the urge to discover/tinker/figure something out and how many got an extra push because the inventor needed to feed the family. Without the added drive to succeed for money, how many things might not have been invented? Not quite the same as musicians/visual artists but it's close. So I will concede to that one: business/money could indeed sway an artist endeavor in a positive way, because without that particular nudge, that particular work might not have been created. But I stand firm that the "purity" of creation for creations sake may be forever lost once that happens. Which may not be bad, but it will always be different.

Second bit: [I snipped a lot of it, sorry bout that] Wallet and promotion is important but so is image. Current society is all about Branding. You think that it was two steps back for the image of the band, and I tend to agree. But that is *our* perception of the image of the band. There are a lot of people out there who are totally eating up up the changes to the "image". Like I said before with the marketing, it's a number's game. And to be successful, i.e. to make a profit, the safe move is to cater The Image to the most number of people.    

Anybody heard of Bethany Frankel? Real Housewives of New York, got a spin-off show on Bravo, built and sold Skinny Girl Margaritas for millions of dollars. She's brazen, brass and curses like I do. So a year or so ago she was in negotiations to host a talk show. The producers wanted to "smooth" her Image, make her softer and gentler, so as to appeal to a broader audience. She declined. Said her fans like her the way she is and she would lose them if she tried to be anything other than who she is. She held on to her Image that was truly herself.

I like that chick. A lot.

[DavinaMars]

CandyO, on 10 January 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Bolded
1. Well, not everything is necessarily a business. Let me rephrase that; not everything is necessarily a business for profit. The local animal shelter funded by donations is probably just happy to break even while saving some animals. :>
2. Yes. Doing what one loves and making enough money to live and thrive is the dream.
3. Well now, pretty sure that if the band was doing "it" purely for "us" then all music would be free, all gigs would be free and tee shirts would be available for shipping costs only.

I meant through normal cases, you can't buy anything without money being kept as profit or being reinvested in a business (like with animal shelters and other social enterprises), i was just getting across the message that businesses are everywhere. yeah i agree with point two, it would be amazing to do what you love and making money really is a must. and yeah i see your point they do have to do things for themselves plus they belong to a record label who also needs to make money

[Jeto_9990]

Most self entitled, ridiculously unknowledgeable user: Candyo