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Copyright Infringement - Non-Licensed Merchandise


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#41 CandyO

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 02:13 PM

View PostVanillaMintFusion, on 22 October 2011 - 07:03 PM, said:

Bumping this due to the latest tweets that went out:

@MARSStore is the only official #MARS merch store worldwide! SHOP NOW -> goo.gl/4u5F8
http://twitter.com/#...874445774815232

and

@jaredleto Please don't buy fake merch on ebay! "@MARSStore: is the only official MARS merch store worldwide! SHOP AT -> goo.gl/4u5F8"
http://twitter.com/#...886597344600064
Thanks for posting those/bumping this Vanilla.
Bit like closing the barn door after the horse ran away but at least it is something. :)
I wonder if they have any clue as to how much fake stuff there is out there, way beyond eBay...

Yup Draco and emma, I agree. People selling unauthorized merch really gets my goat. The recycling of someone else's art/idea for monetary gain that the original artist will never see one penny of just irks me. Well, I've said it enough before and in this thread. Design, make, wear, give-a-way even trade it but don't go selling it. It's just not cool. Respect the copyright.

View PostJ30STM, on 24 October 2011 - 12:33 PM, said:

Regarding this above:
Are the MARS items that Large sells, considered "fake merch" in this case? Cause it's a hell of a lot cheaper for me to order there cause of shipping costs as opposed to the MARSStore in the US!

Btw Interesting topic, thanks for posting CandyO
You're welcome. :)
I think there is a difference here between "official" and "licensed". The official stuff in the musictoday store is made at the direction of the band to be sold in the official store. That does not mean there are not other licensing agreements with manufacturing companies for the fair use of band graphics/images/etc. to be used on shirts/etc and sold in outlets/stores other than musictoday. Band gets a lump sum up front and/or a cut of the sales in return. So something you are buying at Large could very well be licensed and thus not "fake" but not official since it's not in the band's "official" store.

I have no inside information that what I wrote above is 100% accurate and I have not yet delved into any serious research about licensing/etc. but I think I am on the right track. Maybe Helios could confirm.

Oh hai Ambit Energy spam bot. Shoo!

#42 VanillaMintFusion

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 03:35 AM

The merch in stores such as Large.nl are official merch. It's liscenced so in the past it's been all legit. Thing is, the liscence agreements have expired which means ONLY the official MT store now sells legit Merch. Perhaps these other stores are selling their last remaining stock - which IS official/real Merch (not fake) - but that will end soon!

#43 J30STM

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:19 AM

View PostCandyO, on 24 October 2011 - 02:13 PM, said:

You're welcome. :)
I think there is a difference here between "official" and "licensed". The official stuff in the musictoday store is made at the direction of the band to be sold in the official store. That does not mean there are not other licensing agreements with manufacturing companies for the fair use of band graphics/images/etc. to be used on shirts/etc and sold in outlets/stores other than musictoday. Band gets a lump sum up front and/or a cut of the sales in return. So something you are buying at Large could very well be licensed and thus not "fake" but not official since it's not in the band's "official" store.

I have no inside information that what I wrote above is 100% accurate and I have not yet delved into any serious research about licensing/etc. but I think I am on the right track. Maybe Helios could confirm.

Oh hai Ambit Energy spam bot. Shoo!
;) See below as it seems you were right on the money.

View PostVanillaMintFusion, on 25 October 2011 - 03:35 AM, said:

The merch in stores such as Large.nl are official merch. It's liscenced so in the past it's been all legit. Thing is, the liscence agreements have expired which means ONLY the official MT store now sells legit Merch. Perhaps these other stores are selling their last remaining stock - which IS official/real Merch (not fake) - but that will end soon!
Yup, that is what I initially thought, thanks! But it doesn't seem like they are selling last remaining stock as they added items from last tour...Saw some differnces though as the Mithra shirt has no arrow or dates on the back.
Large- MARS merch
I guess as long as Large keeps selling items that I like , I will order there, just to save on shipping costs  B)

#44 J30STM

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:06 PM

Just saw 5 posts from a newbie that is a professional jeweler from Poland, that has posted pics of Triad jewelry in different topics to plug sales
( she also has a new FB page specially for this purpose.)  :huh:

I am assuming this counts as copyright infringement as well?? Have asked them in DE thread to remove pics as well in the other posts as selling stuff like jewelry is not allowed for personal gain..reported btw

EDIT: Seems FB hyperlink is now been taken out of their profile btw...

#45 Green Eyes

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 01:16 PM

View PostJ30STM, on 26 October 2011 - 12:06 PM, said:

Just saw 5 posts from a newbie that is a professional jeweler from Poland, that has posted pics of Triad jewelry in different topics to plug sales
( she also has a new FB page specially for this purpose.)  :huh:

I am assuming this counts as copyright infringement as well?? Have asked them in DE thread to remove pics as well in the other posts as selling stuff like jewelry is not allowed for personal gain..reported btw

EDIT: Seems FB hyperlink is now been taken out of their profile btw...

That person also posted on my profile page, bloomin' cheek!!!  :angry:

I know it has been discussed already, but the amount of 'unofficial' merch on eBay is out of control, let alone all the other stuff out there. The price of fame 'eh?  :rolleyes: I remember when there were 2 or 3 pages of Mars items on eBay....

#46 J30STM

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 11:11 PM

View PostGreen Eyes, on 26 October 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

That person also posted on my profile page, bloomin' cheek!!!  :angry:

I know it has been discussed already, but the amount of 'unofficial' merch on eBay is out of control, let alone all the other stuff out there. The price of fame 'eh?  :rolleyes: I remember when there were 2 or 3 pages of Mars items on eBay....
Really?? Damn, the nerve of some people never seases to amaze me  :blink:

Yes I rememeber that when I just came into the Mars world, even then stuff on ebay wasn't that much. Now it seems that everyone that created even a button wants to sell it on ebay...

#47 CandyO

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 03:46 PM

I saw that chick here with her triads. She's all over eBay too.

I've long hypothesized that the triad, like the arrow, may be grey area. Not really copyrightable since it is a common image. Unlike the glyphs when used in a group or mithra or the skulls logo which are easily identifiable as Mars art. As long as the triad was not referred to as "Triad" and/or 30 Seconds To Mars was not used in the marketing of the piece, it's kinda of a free for all. Plato hasn't come back from the dead with a lawsuit for the unauthorized use of his Air sign, right? Hahaa! But start calling it the 30 Seconds To Mars Triad and now there are trademarks in play and stuff... Like an arrow is just an arrow until it is a "30 Seconds To Mars Arrow."

Spurred on by the fresh discussion, I did a random google for 30 Seconds To Mars Jewelry today and this page came up. She's got it all... Triads, Arrows, Glyphs and even Mithra, all created in stunning silver. She's pretty savvy... on her Web Shop page she refers to the Triad as "Air Sign" and the glyphs as "Ancient Symbols" but on the Gallery page she is using Mars to market them. She's making bank on the band's name, yup.
http://www.deborahjo...co.uk/page3.htm
some people...  <_<

#48 J30STM

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 03:49 PM

^^ Yes I remember her site, I think she was one of the first to have the Triad necklace on ebay...
But this is a different one than the one that posted her jewelry in various threads as that one was from Poland.

Nonetheless it's one thing to mark the triad as air sign, but then sell them as Mars item, that doesn't sit well with me... You are doing so to attract Mars fans & therefore making a profit under the band's name, which equals copyright infringement imo...


Btw Happy Halloween  :)

#49 The Valiant

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 04:29 AM

View PostCandyO, on 06 April 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

Thanks guys. And thank you Helios for clarifying once again what Copyright Infringement is, which those of us who follow the rules already know. This seems to answer Question 2B… yes, the band still cares. But is that gonna be it?

99% of the current offending parties are not even members here so they won’t see your post. Even if you tweet it, 99% of the offending parties do not follow you/have no idea who you are. Even if The Hive were to tweet it, it wouldn’t be “official” in the eyes of most who are infringing on the copyrights. Based on the tweets bitching about Golden Tickets after The Hive took them over, the new people have no idea that The Hive and Sisyphus Touring are 30 Seconds To Mars holdings and as official as one gets.

I don’t want to be a pain in the ass, but it’s for a good cause so I will soldier on. I am looking out for the band’s best interests and have done so for years, regarding their copyrights specifically. Being a fellow artist makes me want to go after those who abuse the band’s copyrights even more than the next guy. I will defend the band’s copyrights as if they were my own. The last copyright discussion I had on here resulted with the offending party saying the following. And I quote:
“As far as copyright goes, it is my understanding that Mars encourage their fans to use the symbols to spread the word and further the cause, I do not manufacture, I individually handmake pieces, often custom requests. I also sell them at cost and for every 10th piece I have sold I have donated a piece to the Echelonhouse or other echelon fundraisers. Sorry if you think this is wrong”
It’s a losing battle. Nobody making money off of Mars gives two shits who I am when I point out that what they are doing is wrong. It needs to come from someone “official”.

The band [and those who are employed by the band and EMI employees etc.] cannot be everywhere all the time. Which is why I asked if help is needed/wanted to find those who are, knowingly or unknowingly, infringing on THIRTYSECONDSTOMARS copyrights by making money off of unlicensed band merchandise.  Helios, did you give the Hive gmail address so we can report links so an official email will be sent to the sites/stores in question to please cease and desist?

May I strongly suggest that Mars issue a simple statement: “Sales and/or profits of any unlicensed items using Mars symbols/artwork/trademarks will not be tolerated. Period. If you do so, you are NOT echelon.” Post it here, Tweet it from the Mars account, facebook it, put it on the official website. Something. Make an official statement so those of us who combat this copyright monster every couple of months on behalf of Mars have something “official” to refer to when people get uppity that a nobody like me dare speak up for the band’s best interest.

I realize not much can be done unless funds are spent to actually prosecute, but a simple official request to halt such sales would go a long way to stop the "fans" who are doing it. "zomg I don't want the band pissed at me. I will stop now!" The joe shmo's who crank out illegal merch for lots of bands might not stop, but those people never annoyed me half as much as much as those who claim to be the "Best Echelon EVER" while making money off the band's artwork.

If something is not done beyond the simple acknowledgment by Helios in this thread that profit gain by way of the band’s symbols/etc. is illegal without prior consent, which those of us with scruples already knew, then nothing has been gained. If those who sell unlicensed merchandise should not do so but are not told to stop… if the powers that be are turning a blind eye to these actions then, in essence, the bad behavior is condoned.

Which means my question was a moot point. Nothing has changed. We are right back where we were 24 hours ago. I could have asked if they like the color blue. Let’s trend #marslikesblue !!1!!!

1. (most) offenders dnt cre (if selling bulk and multiple infringing items)

its sad but true. ive seen this with cheap chinese shop knockoffs in nz who sell fake wrestling shirts.

2. the only thing you can do is make the official people know about it. i warned wwe and they now put an official sewn badge on all their things.

hope that encourages echelon to tell 30stm and the hive about it

#50 CandyO

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 03:17 PM

View PostThe Valiant, on 16 December 2011 - 04:29 AM, said:

1. (most) offenders dnt cre (if selling bulk and multiple infringing items)

its sad but true. ive seen this with cheap chinese shop knockoffs in nz who sell fake wrestling shirts.

2. the only thing you can do is make the official people know about it. i warned wwe and they now put an official sewn badge on all their things.

hope that encourages echelon to tell 30stm and the hive about it
I have seen some cheap Chinese/etc. knock offs tweeted around... there is a new white one, from Taiwan I think, tweeted a few weeks ago that is actually pretty cool - minimalistic/clean design. Very what used to be in the shop. No, I'm not buying one!

It's quite true that most offenders don't care. My biggest beef not being the mass-producers from overseas but the very people who claim to be ECHELON who are so blatant about selling items with the band's copyright designs to make money off of other ECHELON with total disregard for the band while claiming to LOVE THEM SO MUCH and...

I'm just gonna get all stirred up again. Backing away. Breathing now...




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