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#41 jmig

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 05:48 AM

If the first single is indeed the collab with Kanye then yeah chances are high it will make a dent right out of the gate and be a success and expose them to a much broader base of potential listeners. Like I said they know what they are doing in all this and I see a bunch of similarities btwn Mr. West and Mr. Leto.

The integrity conversation is a good one but not being an artist I can't comment too much on it. Is it really integrity though? I don't consider what they did with ABL a loss of integrity. I like the album, I don't like it as much as ST but I don't think they compromised themselves. I think they created an album that was what was in them at the moment and went with a team to push it along to be more of a commercial success. And they gathered up a bunch of obsessive fans who moved mountains to help that success along. (I threw in another idiom for Mike)

I mean I wonder what high moral ground a musician has to hold themself too to not compromise their integrity? Or is is "selling out to commercialism"? or some other thing that worries people? I personally don't consider them a sell out or having lost integrity. Yet. But it is a fine walk between success and money and fame and integrity. And where that line gets drawn is a very individual thing.

#42 HolyRoller

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:21 AM

QUOTE (jmig@rochester.rr.com @ Jul 2 2009, 08:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If the first single is indeed the collab with Kanye then yeah chances are high it will make a dent right out of the gate and be a success and expose them to a much broader base of potential listeners. Like I said they know what they are doing in all this and I see a bunch of similarities btwn Mr. West and Mr. Leto.


Related article.


Just sayin'...

#43 jmig

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:39 AM

QUOTE
The thing is, I thought a lot of Kanye’s strange, quirky behavior was all a part of his act. His brat-sent-to-bed-without-dessert reactions to Grammy snubs, his bizarre videos, the fact that he blogs in ALL CAPS; I assumed it was all his “bit,” you know? He clearly wants to go down in history as some kind of unpredictable, eccentric genius and, hey, he probably could’ve gotten away with it.


there is an odd familiarity there...just sayin'

and none of his egocentric behavior negates the fact that he does have talent in the music industry

#44 Linkin xD

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 02:58 PM

Well, the band know "why" decided to do a song with Kanye.
Now be said to be the next first single will be Hurricane and several echelon are on the expectation.

Only we have to support the band with this new record is coming,
try to see from different points of view that they are trying to show us with "This is War"


#45 Lara

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 03:41 AM

QUOTE (davida @ Jul 1 2009, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
wow. *i like to imagine Jared saying that in his best Christopher Walken, but then that's just me*

and once again, wow.

so this  isn't necessarily directed at the bitch and piss match in the other thread, but at the band, and their people, as well. but the participants of said thread ARE necessarily part of the subject.

i would just like to know what is wrong with letting the music speak for itself, and let the hype build organically. starting a whole shitstorm before the record has even been released makes me worry. it's like setting yourself up for a fall. people should want to listen to your music because they like it. if they like it, then the word gets out. building a bunch of hype, and then the music isn't what people thought it would be, can put some sour taste on it.

so to sum up:

music = first
organic = good
insane = shitstorm
artists / creative professionals = fresh ideas


love you guys lots and looking forward to rocking out to the new tunes.

davida


There should be a clap emoticon...finally common sense prevails!

#46 Jezzabel

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 10:05 AM

QUOTE (Linkin xD @ Jul 2 2009, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Only we have to support the band with this new record is coming,
try to see from different points of view that they are trying to show us with "This is War"


I promise I'm not picking on you, I found your statement interesting.  

Personally I'm going to wait to hear the new album, decide whether I like it or not, before I decide if I'll support it any more.  I really liked S/T, found they changed with ABL (change is good, change is progress, but it doesn't mean I have to like it) and am now interested to see what they do next.  But just because I liked the first album, was ok with the second one, doesn't mean I'm automatically going to promote the third without hearing it first.  Does this make me cynical?  Oh well.

#47 Rutta

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 10:27 AM

QUOTE (HolyRoller @ Jul 2 2009, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Related article.


Just sayin'...


laugh.gif

#48 Seneca

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 09:41 AM

QUOTE (davida @ Jul 1 2009, 04:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
wow. *i like to imagine Jared saying that in his best Christopher Walken, but then that's just me*

and once again, wow.

so this  isn't necessarily directed at the bitch and piss match in the other thread, but at the band, and their people, as well. but the participants of said thread ARE necessarily part of the subject.

i would just like to know what is wrong with letting the music speak for itself, and let the hype build organically. starting a whole shitstorm before the record has even been released makes me worry. it's like setting yourself up for a fall. people should want to listen to your music because they like it. if they like it, then the word gets out. building a bunch of hype, and then the music isn't what people thought it would be, can put some sour taste on it.

having all these insane fans (and im sorry but if you read that fucking thread, insane is a word that comes to mind, people) represent you out in the world, might not best way to go. the best way is having that dude/gal hear the record and say to his/her friends "hey you got to listen to this thirty seconds to mars record". i guess the question that needs to be answered is how do you get that kid to hear the record? well twitter works and myspace works and playing your asses off works and street teams work too, but not like this. not giving your most rabid fans a soapbox to stand on. they might not be the best to see the music from it's truest angles.

you want some original ideas? cool. network within your artist community. you want some fan participation on this level, ask for resumés and find some fans that actually have some sort of experience and know what the fuck is going on out in the real world. but even then, i doubt this would be effective as we see what kind of bullshit goes on when one fan might even possibly be elevated in status above the others.

so to sum up:

music = first
organic = good
insane = shitstorm
artists / creative professionals = fresh ideas


love you guys lots and looking forward to rocking out to the new tunes.

davida


(Would insert clappy hands smilie if there was one!) I have to say I totally agree with this!!

The music speaks for itself.

It was the music that caught my attention first - I heard it drifting from another room and had to go and investigate what it was .. (then spent two weeks going Who is this?', '20 seconds to who?' rolleyes.gif every time I heard it.

The music intrigued - I wanted to hear more - bought ABL - bought S/T - now impatient for TIW - 'organic' seems the way to go, for me anyway. From one of us buying ABL another 6 people acquired it after we'd recommended it - I say acquired as 1 person stole the CD out of my hubands lorry!

I am at the older end of the spectrum and I've always described the music and the band as unique to anyone I've talked to rather than trying to get it to fit into some recognisable genre,  but...because of some of the other stuff that goes along with the band ... they see the music as aimed fairly and squarely at teenagers, and look at me slightly askance (they may think I'm having a mid life crisis!)

I think there needs to be some balance - the promo seems aimed at one demographic, perhaps making it harder to 'sell' to another. But, maybe this is what the band wants...

If Hurricane - with Kanye - is the first single, airplay is guaranteed - radio airplay of other singles has been patchy in the UK I think but Hurricane is likely to be played more - more people will hear it as a result and hopefully want to hear more etc, etc...

#49 *bintang*

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 10:51 AM

QUOTE (Seneca @ Jul 5 2009, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The music speaks for itself.


Yes, that´s the reason why I´m here. I heard FY first and wanted more.

QUOTE (Seneca @ Jul 5 2009, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am at the older end of the spectrum and I've always described the music and the band as unique to anyone I've talked to rather than trying to get it to fit into some recognisable genre,  but...because of some of the other stuff that goes along with the band ... they see the music as aimed fairly and squarely at teenagers, and look at me slightly askance (they may think I'm having a mid life crisis!)

I think there needs to be some balance - the promo seems aimed at one demographic, perhaps making it harder to 'sell' to another. But, maybe this is what the band wants...


I´m one of the older division too. My cousin told me I´m insane or in a mid life crisis cos I like to travel to concerts and promo days. It´s hard for others to comprehend that I do this because I like meeting other fans. They think the only reason for doing this is cos of one of the band members. If they would know the fans they wouldn´t say that.

The way I promote the Band isn´t just the advice to the music i like, I always give interested people an impression of a very special and lovely fan base. I hope that won´t get lost! Just the music is harder to sell.

QUOTE (Seneca @ Jul 5 2009, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Hurricane - with Kanye - is the first single, airplay is guaranteed - radio airplay of other singles has been patchy in the UK I think but Hurricane is likely to be played more - more people will hear it as a result and hopefully want to hear more etc, etc...


I think that´s a smart artifice of the band.  wink.gif They´ll definitely get more attention with Kanye.


#50 jmig

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 05:58 PM

I got your love locked down...(ps what's with the radio edit? sounds like ass)

#51 priya

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 12:08 PM

hmmm, yeh i get where you are coming from.
but people are just creating interest with promoting stuff so people who are curious will look up 30stm other music and will get to know their style and type of music they produce. People will either turn away at that point or start to be more intersted in new album, so i don't think many people would be disappointed when others create a hype about 30stm and new album becuase the intersested people will know roughly what to expect.
im just stating the obvious really.

and with the kanye thing, i don't want the band's music to become too mainstream, their uniqueness in s/t was carried through to abl in my opinion and i don't want kanye to spoil that. oh well tbh it is only 1 song that he is in.

#52 fallenxmarsxgirl

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 04:05 PM

I do agree with most of what you're saying but it just really won't work if they want to sell a lot of records. MTV comes to mind, jus one example (though I don't like MTV it gets music heard) look at all the times they were on MTV for ABL vs. the times they were on it for S/T and how many CDs were sold.

QUOTE (MB13 @ Jul 1 2009, 07:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
while i definitely agree with your points, the music will not speak for itself. the S/T album is easily one of the best albums i have ever heard. i told every motherfucker i knew about that CD and got a shitload of people in my area into the band. how many albums did that sell? ABL comes out (and while i think it is a good album it wasn't amazingly great) and sells millions. from word of mouth or from crazy fans voting everywhere and for everything? selling records is the name of the game and having psycho fans is the best way to do that.

Exactly.
A lot people have at least heard of 30STM I get the "I heard of them they play that song..." most of the time (you know what one) but ask them about the first album and they don't know what you're talking about.  A lot of the fans don't even know about it for that matter let alone own it. I still think ABL sales should have raised S/T sales. Yes I got into the band through ABL but as soon as I found out about the first CD I bought it, obviously most people didn't

#53 davida

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 12:40 PM

QUOTE (MB13 @ Jul 2 2009, 05:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
maybe s/t was before it's time. maybe not. either way it was an amazing record. a record that wasn't "successful" and didn't receive much critical acclaim. (not that i give a shit about thier ratings, but i think Rolling Stone gave it a half or one star) and i don't know about thier plan on this record, but for s/t i'm sure the money was kinda tight so word of mouth and hardcore streetteaming was what they went with. as for ABL, they definitely lined up the psycho fans and gave them thousands of stickers and told them to vote for anything they could regarding the band. and it worked because the record was hella successful.



i think that the self titled didn't get a fair shake because it was seen as a vanity project of a hollywood actor. nuf said.


QUOTE
in either case i think the main thing that is gonna determine whether this record is successful or not is the first single. if it is a hit among the MTV crowd then the record will definitely sell a million or two at least. all the promo/streetteaming/stickers in the world aren't gonna do shit for a band that can't get a single to be played on TV or the radio. personally, i just hope i enjoy the music a lot, and i'm sure i will. how many albums and shit they sell doesn't really affect me at all, but i would like to see them be successful. they deserve it.


i think they deserve to be successful as well. but imo, true success for them would not be monetary but in critical acclaim, acceptance and respect from their peers and some real street cred. and why don't i think they really have this? because many people still see the band as a vanity project of a hollywood actor. oh, i might have said that already....

QUOTE
as far as music integrity goes, i'm not in a position to say who has it or not. that's usually up to the bands. if they are happy with thier product and didn't compromise anything to get to the final product then i don't see how people can say the lost thier integrity or sold out or whatever. you say the Jonas Brothers have no integrity, but how so? i don't really know shit about them but i'm guessing they set out to make poppy music when they first started the band. and that's exactly what they did. became super successful playing pop music. i don't really see that as having no integrity. i doubt they started out trying to succeed at something then sold out and went pop when they couldn't do it. fact of the matter is that most of the pop stars that sell millions of albums to teenagers never really sell out. they are pretty much doing what they set out to do from the beginning. it's a lot of the unsuccessful bands that change thier style several times until they get it right (and by get it right i mean produce a hit single) that should be worried about musical integrity.



QUOTE (jmig@rochester.rr.com @ Jul 2 2009, 05:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If the first single is indeed the collab with Kanye then yeah chances are high it will make a dent right out of the gate and be a success and expose them to a much broader base of potential listeners. Like I said they know what they are doing in all this and I see a bunch of similarities btwn Mr. West and Mr. Leto.

The integrity conversation is a good one but not being an artist I can't comment too much on it. Is it really integrity though? I don't consider what they did with ABL a loss of integrity. I like the album, I don't like it as much as ST but I don't think they compromised themselves. I think they created an album that was what was in them at the moment and went with a team to push it along to be more of a commercial success. And they gathered up a bunch of obsessive fans who moved mountains to help that success along. (I threw in another idiom for Mike)

I mean I wonder what high moral ground a musician has to hold themself too to not compromise their integrity? Or is is "selling out to commercialism"? or some other thing that worries people? I personally don't consider them a sell out or having lost integrity. Yet. But it is a fine walk between success and money and fame and integrity. And where that line gets drawn is a very individual thing.


in·teg·ri·ty
Pronunciation:
\in-ˈte-grə-tē\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English integrite, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French integrité, from Latin integritat-, integritas, from integr-, integer entire
Date:
14th century
1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : incorruptibility
2 : an unimpaired condition : soundness
3 : the quality or state of being complete or undivided : completeness

no, the jonus bros didn't sell out their dream to be the next "arcade fire" (or who knows, maybe they did), but to say that they have "artistic integrity" is a real stretch. they (possibly) write and perform fluff. fluff for their market, being white middle classed pre-teen and teen girls. they possibly could play kazoos out their butts and have the same success. it's not about art, it is about personality and hormones. but as far as accomplishing their goals, one could say that they have complied to the above definition, if selling fluff to teens is what they set out to do.

musical integrity is a subtle thing. to say a band has artistic integrity is a hard call, but i think if you compare a bands direction between records, there should be a logical musical continuance. yes bands grow and change, but to the listener, there should be a musical and stylistic continuum that is apparent. that to me is what defines musical integrity.

so now we come back to 30STM. can one say that there was a logical and emotional continuum between the ST and ABL? that is a question we all have to answer personally. i have my opinion, which will be solidified by hearing the new material. i am really hoping that ABL was a blip in the artistic career of the band, brought on by label pressure and a producer who was brought in to create a radio ready rock. i don't think the band sold out per se, but i'm willing to bet my last cup of coffee that they were pushed and pulled in certain directions. hey, i liked ABL, but it was not the logical progression that i expected from the band that created the ST. uknowwhatimsayin?

why am i going to reserve my final opinion, though? because maybe the ST was the blip and ABL era 30STM is the true form of this band. and that's why the third one will be the charm (or not) for me.

#54 davida

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 07:18 PM




so over the years, i have killed some pretty epic threads and some lame and shitty threads, but i haven't, until now, killed my own thread.


i'm listening to a live performance from Holy Fuck, if that makes a difference..




disclaimer: this may or may not be true. you will have to consult the crack legal team of cracker, crackhead and asscrack for confirmation. it will cost you 10 buck.




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