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#1 davida

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 08:14 PM


wow. *i like to imagine Jared saying that in his best Christopher Walken, but then that's just me*

and once again, wow.

so this  isn't necessarily directed at the bitch and piss match in the other thread, but at the band, and their people, as well. but the participants of said thread ARE necessarily part of the subject.

i would just like to know what is wrong with letting the music speak for itself, and let the hype build organically. starting a whole shitstorm before the record has even been released makes me worry. it's like setting yourself up for a fall. people should want to listen to your music because they like it. if they like it, then the word gets out. building a bunch of hype, and then the music isn't what people thought it would be, can put some sour taste on it.

having all these insane fans (and im sorry but if you read that fucking thread, insane is a word that comes to mind, people) represent you out in the world, might not best way to go. the best way is having that dude/gal hear the record and say to his/her friends "hey you got to listen to this thirty seconds to mars record". i guess the question that needs to be answered is how do you get that kid to hear the record? well twitter works and myspace works and playing your asses off works and street teams work too, but not like this. not giving your most rabid fans a soapbox to stand on. they might not be the best to see the music from it's truest angles.

you want some original ideas? cool. network within your artist community. you want some fan participation on this level, ask for resumés and find some fans that actually have some sort of experience and know what the fuck is going on out in the real world. but even then, i doubt this would be effective as we see what kind of bullshit goes on when one fan might even possibly be elevated in status above the others.

so to sum up:

music = first
organic = good
insane = shitstorm
artists / creative professionals = fresh ideas


love you guys lots and looking forward to rocking out to the new tunes.

davida





#2 TeachJoanne

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 12:40 AM

At the risk of becoming First Ass-Kisser (thus elevating me above others), those are some valid points.

#3 gawain

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 01:11 AM

QFT. davida you read my mind. I hate hype. Let the music speak for itself. It will find it's audience and be supported on it's own merit...or not. You said it much more eloquently than I.
music = first
organic = good
insane = shitstorm
artists / creative professionals = fresh ideas
I'll be your second ass-kisser, but that's as far as I go. Sorry.

#4 razorbladekiss666

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 02:27 AM

QUOTE (gawain @ Jul 1 2009, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QFT. davida you read my mind. I hate hype. Let the music speak for itself. It will find it's audience and be supported on it's own merit...or not. You said it much more eloquently than I.
music = first
organic = good
insane = shitstorm
artists / creative professionals = fresh ideas
I'll be your second ass-kisser, but that's as far as I go. Sorry.

I will be the third then smile.gif I agree with ya i really do! it sometimes worries me that they have so many nuts(and not always in a good way) and/or quite nasty fans as it doesnt give a good impression to newer fans having a look in...plus the echelon or mars army whatever are great fans and are wonderful at voting their asses off to get the bands awards etc so when one thinks of 30 you dont just think of the music or even the music first; you think of the fans and thats worrying if this is how they act...

#5 Adeena

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 03:02 AM

Oh!  A crowd!

Can I join in?

#6 Helenita

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 03:44 AM

QUOTE (davida @ Jul 1 2009, 05:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Good post smile.gif


#7 mamanchat

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 03:53 AM

QUOTE (davida @ Jul 1 2009, 05:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
music = first
organic = good
insane = shitstorm
artists / creative professionals = fresh ideas

+1!

#8 Consu82

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 04:35 AM

QUOTE (davida @ Jun 30 2009, 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Love your explanation about situation (lol) wink.gif

#9 find-ourselves-lost

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 04:40 AM

QUOTE (Helenita @ Jul 1 2009, 03:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good post smile.gif

Yup, What she said smile.gif

#10 jeremy2tall

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 04:53 AM

QUOTE (THIRTYSECONDSTOMARS @ Jun 26 2009, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As it has been said...."The war is coming..."



and that's exactly what you started by posting this HIVE business. A WAR.




good job, Leto.

#11 mamanchat

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 04:55 AM

Addendum. Would like to add my thoughts more or less connected with this:

QUOTE (davida @ Jul 1 2009, 05:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
building a bunch of hype, and then the music isn't what people thought it would be, ...

Concerning the Hive idea, I'd like to say I was a bit dumbstruck at what I think/hope was a lack of insight of the band on how the Echelon came into existence and is currently organized in countries outside the US. (If it ain't broken, why fix it??)

Secondly, I'm wondering, if the band manages to re-organize the Echelon into a hive-like structure, how are they going to prevent it all from collapsing like a card-house once the new album is released? Because inevitably part of the fan-base will become disinterested with the new sound/new message and turn the page. And even if they swear on the head of their first-born that they shall remain loyal to the cause, it will happen to some of the Bee Leaders too.

Example out of personal experience: when I joined this fanbase early 2005, I was happy to find, after some searching, one of the still active European Echelons. If not the only one. Present on the net with a website and forum. Unfortunately, as soon as they'd heard the new album, they decided it wasn't really to their taste and closed house.

Maybe the word 'failure' just isn't part of the band's dictionary. Yeah, I know, many generals have gone to war like that...


#12 drakosh

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 05:02 AM

look on it from the other side. People want some action, many of them got tired just waiting. people want to participate in something. And that is what Letos give. And nothing more. I think that it's not so bad...

#13 Sal_arg

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 07:45 AM

kudos to you davida.
It makes me worry as well...the thing is...this Hive idea has been working for a while for some division...and never the less of it has been out there or not ( point made by mamanchat already)...why start this? poeple freaking out to be pick out and blah blah...if it is good (and I'm sure it'll be) it's going to make it's way out there and I'm sure that all the poeple who has recently dicover 30 seconds to mars is looking foward to hear more, no need to start this sort of popularity contest about who gets the most votes.
i had talked about this on twitter...I got bitched...but I'm not the only one as I can see :-)

Again...super excited the new album I'm sure it's going to be rad.

Sal.
Signed because I felt like to

#14 ilusyonada

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 07:59 AM

It seems everyone assumes that The Hive will be a total failure. But the thing hasn't even started yet. And the band said not to be afraid of failure. That's how they got where they are now. I think it's better to try and fail than not to try at all. And it's an experiment, an exciting one imo. At least we'll learn from it.

I think as long as promotion is not overdone, there won't be too much hype and disappointment. And even if there'll be people who'll be disappointed with the music, which always happens with or without promotion, at least we'll have brought in new fans (or just listeners).

#15 MB13

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 08:03 AM

while i definitely agree with your points, the music will not speak for itself. the S/T album is easily one of the best albums i have ever heard. i told every motherfucker i knew about that CD and got a shitload of people in my area into the band. how many albums did that sell? ABL comes out (and while i think it is a good album it wasn't amazingly great) and sells millions. from word of mouth or from crazy fans voting everywhere and for everything? selling records is the name of the game and having psycho fans is the best way to do that.

#16 AmanitaVirosa

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 08:24 AM

QUOTE (davida @ Jun 30 2009, 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i would just like to know what is wrong with letting the music speak for itself, and let the hype build organically.

Which is exactly what's gonna happen anyway. So, yeah, why The Hive?

Possibly the album hype aspect of it is just one thing. The other, I think, probably has to do with the strong theme of "participation" involved in this latest 'art project' or 'social experiment' or whatever-the-heck they want to call it.

QUOTE (davida @ Jun 30 2009, 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
starting a whole shitstorm before the record has even been released makes me worry.


Me, too. But, I'm guessing the original intention was probably to find yet another layer, or way to involve the fans in the process. (Pffttt! Be careful what you ask for.)

Live and learn, eh?




#17 jmig

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 08:47 AM

QUOTE (TeachJoanne @ Jul 1 2009, 03:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At the risk of becoming First Ass-Kisser (thus elevating me above others), those are some valid points.

I only read this because it was a Davida post and I knew it would be good - so like Jo I agree that there are some very valid points.

QUOTE (MB13 @ Jul 1 2009, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
while i definitely agree with your points, the music will not speak for itself. the S/T album is easily one of the best albums i have ever heard. i told every motherfucker i knew about that CD and got a shitload of people in my area into the band. how many albums did that sell? ABL comes out (and while i think it is a good album it wasn't amazingly great) and sells millions. from word of mouth or from crazy fans voting everywhere and for everything? selling records is the name of the game and having psycho fans is the best way to do that.

And then to further suck up to people who make sense, Mike also calls out a very valid point on how to make this album successful realistically and financially.

Basicaly this hive business gives me the hives and is nothing short of a giant clusterfuck popularity contest bitchfest swarm of angry people mixed in with a bunch of sarcasm right now, but these guys usually know what they are doing when they throw shit out there to see what sticks and who/what claws their way to the top.

I am sure this will end up working out somehow in the end as these things usually do...meanwhile I am just avoiding most of these threads and waiting anxiously for this new record with high hopes.



#18 Pitchouill

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 08:54 AM

QUOTE (drakosh @ Jul 1 2009, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
look on it from the other side. People want some action, many of them got tired just waiting. people want to participate in something. And that is what Letos give. And nothing more. I think that it's not so bad...


I believe that everybody is tired waiting... at least, all people who are in this whole thing for a little bit of time. We're tired, and we want action that's true... But to give us music and record will create more action and more motivation than any project online.
This is just my point of view but i think that if they want really to make us move they have to give something new, a concrete thing.

[/ off topic ]

#19 Lily_17

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 09:16 AM

Depends how the 'hype' is built, really.  The most important thing about marketing on any level is that it's authentic - so if they're marketing (or hyping, or what have you) a product/service/culture/fanbase/CD/pair of pants/etc that is true to its intent and is, in fact, authentic, then I don't see the big deal.



#20 jmig

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 09:35 AM

Lily I don't get your point on authenticity? Marketing and PR in many cases is bullshit product spin and product placement and creation of a feeling around something...it can be the shittiest pair of pants out there but if you market it correctly, get good PR behind it and add some endorsements along the way those pants will still sell like hotcakes. However if they fall apart after one wash or are truly a horrid product eventually in the end no amount of marketing can help.




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