[Laura Gaona]

Hii!

That's a link for help Green Pace through signatures, to close central nuclear.
Web is in Spanish, but, I could translate it if you need it.

https://colabora2.greenpeace.es/yosoyantinuclear/


Thank you

[Sanna/Swe]

Great

[butterfly]

I was thinking about that a lot. What kind of energy is better?

Hydroelectric stations really badly damage rivers.
Thermal power station waste tons of coal and mazut. Not to mention emissions.
Wind power station make noise and vibrations, which isn't good for us. And it is very common for migrating birds to fly into wind turbines and get killed.

Anyway...
Here is an interesting article about advantages and challenges of nuclear energy

[find-ourselves-lost]

I was thinking about that a lot. What kind of energy is better?

Hydroelectric stations really badly damage rivers.
Thermal power station waste tons of coal and mazut. Not to mention emissions.
Wind power station make noise and vibrations, which isn't good for us. And it is very common for migrating birds to fly into wind turbines and get killed.
Anyway...
Here is an interesting article about advantages and challenges of nuclear energy

What about them solar power thingy's that go on the roof?

[jmig]

I have never heard anything about the noise or vibrations from wind farms being harmful? Can you elaborate? And I mean harmful to humans, no offense to the migrating birds.

[butterfly]

What about them solar power thingy's that go on the roof?

Solar power is great, I think.
But it's not enough to supply big cities.

I have never heard anything about the noise or vibrations from wind farms being harmful? Can you elaborate? And I mean harmful to humans, no offense to the migrating birds.

It's harmful psychologically. Wind stations are built in countrysides where people used to live in peace and quite. These stations produce very high noise level.

[jmig]

Solar power is great, I think.
But it's not enough to supply big cities.



It's harmful psychologically. Wind stations are built in countrysides where people used to live in peace and quite. These stations produce very high noise level.

1 a: of or relating to psychology b: mental
2: directed toward the will or toward the mind specifically in its conative function <psychological warfare>

That is ridiculous. People can chose to move and most times depending on where they live they get offered to have their land/property bought out for a fair rate. Out of all the options currently available you are going to cite noise pollution (and by the way I have been to wind farms, they are not that disruptive and I would imagine some would liken them to white noise) as a reason to not have them. I was asking for real proof of real harm. Something where the cons outweigh the pros and if this is the best you got, please stop.

Wind is natural and it is free and it is available.

read

read

[ROSSSSSS10]

That is ridiculous. People can chose to move and most times depending on where they live they get offered to have their land/property bought out for a fair rate. Out of all the options currently available you are going to cite noise pollution (and by the way I have been to wind farms, they are not that disruptive and I would imagine some would liken them to white noise) as a reason to not have them. I was asking for real proof of real harm. Something where the cons outweigh the pros and if this is the best you got, please stop.

Wind is natural and it is free and it is available.

exactly what i was thinking.
on the drive between home and school, i pass hundreds... maybe thousands of the windmills.
and they are actually REALLY cool to look at.

shit, if i owned land... id have those suckers all over it.
here in Texas, its like... $1200 a MONTH just for ONE of them on your property.
imagine having dozens... holy shit.

[jmig]

I agree Ross, I think they are the coolest things ever. It is like a high tech forest or something. I love it.

[Helenita]

Wind power station make noise and vibrations, which isn't good for us. And it is very common for migrating birds to fly into wind turbines and get killed.

There are others problems with them, at least here where i live. They have to be in high places, like hills. To arrive there is necessary to creat some infrastructure, like roads. Then in the process of bulding the turbines and after for maintenance, trucks and other heavy machinery have to arrive to the place. Finally, we have the wind power station, but the hills were have been bulding and their ecosystem have been damaged.

But i still think is better than others.

[kynd]

I agree Ross, I think they are the coolest things ever. It is like a high tech forest or something. I love it.

I do think they look kinda graceful - but then I have only viewed them from afar, usually in a moving car, and I don't have to live with them on my doorstep!

There are others problems with them, at least here where i live. They have to be in high places, like hills. To arrive there is necessary to creat some infrastructure, like roads. Then in the process of bulding the turbines and after for maintenance, trucks and other heavy machinery have to arrive to the place. Finally, we have the wind power station, but the hills were have been bulding and their ecosystem have been damaged.

But i still think is better than others.

Helena makes a good point, we often forget at how they arrive at these ecofriendly solutions, often through a very non-ecofriendly route

But yeah, it's a better way than many others to produce energy.

[GhettoKameleon]

One thing I must say about this...when the government puts in wind turbines, they don't buy the land at a "fair rate." Eminant domain fucks over land owners ten times out of ten. The government will gives a small percent of what the land is actually worth, and landowners rarely have a choice as to whether or not the turbines can be put on their land.

[jmig]

I do think they look kinda graceful - but then I have only viewed them from afar, usually in a moving car, and I don't have to live with them on my doorstep!



Helena makes a good point, we often forget at how they arrive at these ecofriendly solutions, often through a very non-ecofriendly route

But yeah, it's a better way than many others to produce energy.

Yes getting them there is indeed tricky and can be the most destructive part of the process. In many places though attempts are made to reestablish the area that was "destroyed" in the process. It may not be as serene but it can still be done well.

One thing I must say about this...when the government puts in wind turbines, they don't buy the land at a "fair rate." Eminant domain fucks over land owners ten times out of ten. The government will gives a small percent of what the land is actually worth, and landowners rarely have a choice as to whether or not the turbines can be put on their land.

This is true in some cases. If you are going to make sweeping comments please provide some sort of fact that you base you opinions on.

[GhettoKameleon]

Sadly, I have no pure statistics and facts, only what I have heard from those in Southern Oregon and Northern California that I have spoken to. I suppose I could go to my office and look over their tax files, but even then I couldn't post it, because that would be...ya know, illegal. Most of the people I spoke to said they would have gladly allowed the government to put in the turbines, but they weren't even given a choice nor any type of bargaining agreement. State officials basically just sent them letters saying "Guess what!? We're putting some shit on your property!"

[ROSSSSSS10]

Sadly, I have no pure statistics and facts, only what I have heard from those in Southern Oregon and Northern California that I have spoken to. I suppose I could go to my office and look over their tax files, but even then I couldn't post it, because that would be...ya know, illegal. Most of the people I spoke to said they would have gladly allowed the government to put in the turbines, but they weren't even given a choice nor any type of bargaining agreement. State officials basically just sent them letters saying "Guess what!? We're putting some shit on your property!"

all the ones here in West Texas are out in the middle of nowhere. and the land is pretty useless. aside from cotton, some oil, cattle. none of which the turbines actually interfere with. but again, that is just how it is here.

[GhettoKameleon]

Texas, put quite simply, has more open land than probably any state in the nation (sans Alaska). In Oregon, virtually all the land is privately owned, or owned by the BLM. It's all used for farming, ranching, wildlife preserves, etc. The government here isn't about to use their own land for bettering the community, so BLM land is out (except for logging, apparently). That pretty much leaves only private land in Western Oregon for wind turbines. Eastern Oregon sucks ass in every way, but since most of it is open land, having the turbines there is useless. The energy produced out there would be dilluted by the time it reached populus Western OR.

[jmig]

Well the industry I work in is sort of related to Wind Farms in a way and for the most part it seems very fair - typically in the favor of the owner. Not all cases though, I have also seen evidence of what Chris said, just not that much. However those are the folks who are vocal, as is with most subjects if people are happy they tend to be quiet, if they are pissed they make noise. The biggest downside IMO is what someone mentioned earlier about what is needed to get them there. It is an incredible process and hard to believe how large these things are and how much space needs to be created.

All in all I am still in favor of them.

[ROSSSSSS10]

Texas, put quite simply, has more open land than probably any state in the nation (sans Alaska). In Oregon, virtually all the land is privately owned, or owned by the BLM. It's all used for farming, ranching, wildlife preserves, etc. The government here isn't about to use their own land for bettering the community, so BLM land is out (except for logging, apparently). That pretty much leaves only private land in Western Oregon for wind turbines. Eastern Oregon sucks ass in every way, but since most of it is open land, having the turbines there is useless. The energy produced out there would be dilluted by the time it reached populus Western OR.

yeah, its pretty open here.
the drive is pretty empty from my home to school (Dallas to Lubbock [West Texas])
and their are the wind turbines for the last, probably 2 hours or so.
the city i live in gets a lot of the power from those things.