[Lily_17]

So in light of some of the discussion around here lately, I'm bringing this question to you in hopes of some sort of a rational discussion/debate (for at least 3 posts, anyways).

I've been bothered by this apparent contradiction after happening upon it in my existentialism class last year.

My professor, much in the same vein as many people here, didn't really get offended by anything, and was one of those kinds of people who would just say whatever she thought, regardless of the consequences. We had discussions about it in many of the classes during the year, and she was quite frank about what she thought and why. (It might be worth noting that she got in some serious hot water at our school about one of her comments outside of our class, but anyhow..)

I could go on about her more, but to keep this topic short, these were the two things that she said (on separate occasions) that I couldn't reconcile in my mind.

She said that she hated diplomacy; that she didn't see any need for it. She would 'call it as she saw it' so to speak.

At the same time, she said she would often say things just to get a rise out of people and to provoke discussions and debates.

Now, I can see the upsides to both of these things...but it seems to be hard to reconcile them. Because at that point, it's too hard to determine whether the things being said are what is actually thought (because diplomacy isn't a virtue) or whether the things being said are being said only to provoke.

Thoughts?

[scinsocal]

I believe that half is how you interpret what is said and the other half is the mind in which you are interpreting said things.

Great discussion topic Lily!

[Lily_17]

You can do better than that, Art

Asshole.

[Lullaby]

Provocation is good especially because it raises discussions.

And I think we can say pretty much whatever we want on the internet, especially on a music board. People take internet to seriously.

[scinsocal]

NIGGERS SMELL LIKE SHIT

1st reply yay

Example:

I am not offended by this and can find some humor and irony considering who is posting.

Arguement:

I am not black so I could never understand why this is offensive, but I am not of the belief that this statement is in refernece to the color of skin, but more the attitude and actions of the person.



can of worms=open for business

[Stigmatized]

Great, and this thread will solve ????

And i'm offended in a way.....my best friend is african american . I'm offended for her. Ten bucks you would never say that to an african americans face. I find no humor in it but we are all different and that's good.

[bloochick]

NIGGERS SMELL LIKE SHIT

1st reply yay

art smokes crack




most recent reply yay

[Westenra's Ghost]

I have to admit, sometimes, in a debate I will deliberatly play devil's advocate, just to liven up the discussion. I hate it when conversations (especially on dates etc) end up being one long repeition of 'oh, yes, I feel exactly the same' after I've given a well thought, intelliegnt reply.. it just gets boring. So yes, sometimes saying the opposite of what one actually means in order to force the other person firstly to think for themsleves and secondly to provide a valid argument for their own opinions rather than simply reiterate the opinions of others is, IMO at times a necessity.

Yes I know my spelling sucks - I've just painted my nails so I'm typing like a dimwit.

[scinsocal]

Great, and this thread will solve ????

And i'm offended in a way.....my best friend is african american . I'm offended for her. Ten bucks you would never say that to an african americans face. I find no humor in it but we are all different and that's good.

This is a racist remark.

Though the term NIGGERS may be associated with the color of a persons skin, it has "evolved" into many different meanings. When an intelligent black man is above being offended by said word, he is a fine example of not being racist.

JMO, but seems to be shared by many high profile commentators and people.

[Lily_17]

Great, and this thread will solve ????

It's not supposed to SOLVE anything.

But it isn't a thread about being mean to people or whatever the fuck you have a problem with on these boards lately- it was a question I figured I'd pose to the intelligent people here.

Jesus christ.

[scinsocal]

Lily, consider the source...

[Lily_17]

I disagree. There are plenty of intelligent discussions here, and some even in response to offensive statements. We could talk, for example, about the injustices encountered in every day life (like the exploitation of the working class), but people are too caught up with their "They hate women, blacks, and gays" mindset to actually share their opinions and questions.
I'm offended by the term "African-American." My parents and grandparents didn't come from the bush, they were born in America. Ignorance is bliss, huh, Diane. Get the fuck over yourself.

Now now, don't generalize.

Your last part reminds me of how I damn near failed an assignment because my teacher wasn't happy that I hated the terms "Most Sportswomanlike" or "Centrewoman," etc.

I play centre. I'm a centreman. Not because I'm an oppressed woman.

[Lily_17]

And I think this is where trying to understand the source of the comments (like I mentioned in the other post) is relevant, at least to some extent.

Because there are some things that people have said that could be offensive by virtue of the actual words/thoughts being portrayed. But because of the context and the people saying them, they just become humourous or are very obviously designed to make a point.

How you choose to take the bait is up to you.

But to sugar's post, it is sometimes difficult to tell over the internet, especially if you're dealing with people you don't 'know' very well. I've even had difficulties with people I know in real life, where they don't mean what you think they mean at all in regards to stuff typed on a message board. Asking for clarification is always a good thing in these circumstances.

[Stigmatized]

This is a racist remark.

Though the term NIGGERS may be associated with the color of a persons skin, it has "evolved" into many different meanings. When an intelligent black man is above being offended by said word, he is a fine example of not being racist.

JMO, but seems to be shared by many high profile commentators and people.

Well, this is what my friend likes to be called and it's far from being a racist remark....it's respecting my friend and her wishes.......i prefer not to call her black or a nigger.

Lily, consider the source...

You know what shawn, never had a thing against you and still don't even after what you did to me with the whole stalker story but i see things and know things that you could never even fathom. Please don't call me dumb when you are making threads to vedran saying how much you appreciate him. All my respect for you was lost after that.