[JulesKD]

Single mothers by choice.

What do you all think of this? If a woman is secure, can feed, clothe and shelter herself and another person comfortably, is it any different from being a single mother not by choice? Or a divorced mother? Is it a "movement", a lifestyle choice, or something more? Ladies, would you do it? Ladies and men, would you look down on someone who did it? Or do you find it admirable?

I'm curious what people here think because, aside from a few dumb trolls, we do have a handful of strong-minded people here with very, uhh, intense opinions. I wonder where most people will fall on this subject. Any takers?

~~J

[HeartBroken]

If a woman can do it alone when her husband leaves her or what not, then there is no reason why she shouldn't be able to make the choice of being alone. Because "male figures" will always be around, like grandparents, uncles, perhaps male friends.

I think that women who make such a choice are brave because it's difficult to raise children and it's good to have help sometimes, but if they think they can handle it then good for them!

[sweetkiss]

If she has the love in her heart... the home will be a wonderful and great place for a child to grow up. Regardless of if there is a man in the home or not. I would rather see a single mother who is happy and content in her life than a woman who is in a marriage just to give a child a home.

[HipMomster]

Don't even get me started.

[ValxX]

Single mothers by choice.

What do you all think of this? If a woman is secure, can feed, clothe and shelter herself and another person comfortably, is it any different from being a single mother not by choice? Or a divorced mother? Is it a "movement", a lifestyle choice, or something more? Ladies, would you do it? Ladies and men, would you look down on someone who did it? Or do you find it admirable?

I'm curious what people here think because, aside from a few dumb trolls, we do have a handful of strong-minded people here with very, uhh, intense opinions. I wonder where most people will fall on this subject. Any takers?

~~J

Personally, I think if a woman is stable enough to be able to support herself and a child, but isn't married, there is no reason she shouldn't have a child. I myself would not go to a sperm bank or anything of that sort to get pregnant, but I don't see anything wrong with being a single mother. It is almost always in a woman's nature to want a child, but let's face it, not all women get married. There's no reason that a woman can't be a loving mother just because she isn't married or isn't in a relationship.

[rockchic88]

I could say alot about this. First of all, it's not all single mothers. This is one particular type and she's somewhat affluent. Now while money is n't everything to a kid, as a parent it certainly makes life easier, less stressful, and affords you the luxury of maybe a nanny or at least daycare! Sounds more ideal than say being a single mother with a drug addicted father and you're both unemployed. OR better than being a single person struggling to meet even your own needs and then a child is unexpectedly thrown in the mix.

Then the father issue. Let's not say this won't be an issue. I've worked in schools, with children and had two of my own. Kids need not just any Dad, but a "healthy" dad for thier emotional well being and self esteem. Kids who don't know who their dad is, or mom is for that matter, will always have that "hole". Ask your adopted friends about it.

How many of you know how hard it is to raise a kid with two parents, or a step parent and parent, and even maybe with an extended family?

I'm not against Choice Moms. I'm just cautious about parenting in general
I've always thought you should need a "license" or something before you're allowed to procreate. Maybe I don't quite mean that, but...well there are alot of people who just shouldnt have kids. I think it's a huge decision. And no one knows what it's like until they actually have that baby at home and are alone trying to deal with no sleep, sickness, managing basic needs, and maybe having other worries on top of that.

and this coming from someone who had her first child really young. I had no idea what was ahead, and honestly if I had, I wouldn't have been so brave.

If it was my sister ( and it could be. she kind of fits the description), my advice would be don't do it! Not unless Mom and Dad or aunt and uncle, or very close knit group of friends is 110% there for you and that baby every day and on a moment's notice.

[Karim]

Another fucking dumbass topic. Taking a mother or father out of the parenting equation is like taking out a lung. Yes, you'll still be alive. Does that make the missing lung pointless? NO. From the site, it looks like "SMC" is a bunch of women who didn't have the common sense or attractiveness to get themselves a man.

[rockchic88]

What about kids with two moms? Is that hole there, too? Or do you mean it's the presence of two parents that matters?

I've never met my father. My mom raised me all by herself. I don't feel a "hole" emotionally, though. Financially? Oh, yeah, that was hard to watch and deal with. But no "holes" (well, any more than the average person raised by two parents. . ., I guess).

well, you are really lucky. It doesn't always work that way at all. You probably have a great Mom who did an amazing job raising you. If you are a girl, POSSIBLY, it's easier to not know your Dad than if you are a boy. Maybe, maybe not. I know that for many kids that missing, underactive, deceased, or otherwise absent parent is a source of sadness, wonder, distress, guilt, and/or a whole bunch of other things.

and about the two moms, another story

definitely better than one Mom trying to raise kids all alone, no matter how much money she has
I still think the real Dad or at least "step" or "adopted" Dad, one that will stay in the kids life, is important even with two Moms
especially for boys

[scinsocal]

Well...

When I became a parent, it was with the entire family unit in tact. My decision was made. I am a Mom.

The "Dad", on the other hand, figured it was an option. I never looked at it that way. I became a single parent because of the mate I chose. He didn't become someone after the fact that he wasn't before. I, like most young women, talked myself into the idea that he loved me enough to change and that I loved him enough that he would change.

That is the mistake that so many of us make, men and women, that alter the future of these children we have. My son has always needed his father AND mother, unfortunately, his father is who he was and contiues to be. This revelation has not made it any less hard on my son. Although my son has been very fortunate in the family and friends that we have built around us, it is not the same as having a joint effort as an example.

So, money or not, both parents are very important to the upbringing and well being of children. I have lived it and chosen not to have any more children because there are no guarantees and I have watched the struggles my son has had to go through without a father. I never want the responsibility of another childs anger and frustrations without providing that child with basic 2- parent family values.

[HipMomster]

Taking a mother or father out of the parenting equation is like taking out a lung. Yes, you'll still be alive. Does that make the missing lung pointless? NO.

i love you.


i have so much more to add but i gotta leave. and shawn, you know i love you tons.

[JulesKD]

Yeah, I guess I am lucky. But I guess, too, that defining a successful child as one who has to be raised by a mom and a dad is problematic for me--that whole "other story" you refer to. Right now, it doesn't seem realistic to insist that a successful child must be raised by a traditional pair of parents, especially since there are so many screwed up kids who HAVE both parents and so many who do not that are taking names and kicking ass, you know? That logic doesn't follow when you look at evidence.

Great points all around.

And, I dunno about the idea that these women couldn't get men or are unattractive. What if they just don't want men and want babies? Is that so messed up?

Ignore the trolls, though. (Anyone whose primary argument is "THAT'S CAUSE UR UGLY!!" is a troll.)

So many people who have babies don't want them/shouldn't have them and produce horribly defunct kids--even some with two parent households. It seems, to me, that those in the world who are willing and able to produce and rear "fit adults" should be allowed to do so with little criticism, especially since, again, SO many kids need stability and love.

I see cases of this all the time. Out of all of my friends with kids--and I've got lots--I know three families who stayed together. Two of those families failed / are failing their children miserably. One family's got pretty well-adjusted kids. The rest are all divorced, with the moms raising the kids and, in two cases, the father still being abusive towards the mothers and the kids, with the courts doing nothing about it.

The traditional family unit just doesn't cut it all the time. Sometimes they do. Some single moms don't make the grade all the time. Sometimes they do. I think it depends on the people involved, but that's just my mana'o.

Bear in mind that I'm not asking permission or anything, by the way. My mind is made up. I'm making my appointment to enter the "serious thinking" phase in a few months. Prolly be a few years before I go through with it, but, well, it's time to start. I just wanted to get a feel for what people in general think.*

~~J


*And admittedly, a juvenile part of me still likes to piss people off. Some really defiant streak in me kind of likes it when people get righteous and angry over other people's choices and I take a perverse pleasure in rubbing their noses in it. I swear if I was gay I'd be one of those SO TOTALLY OUT AND LOVING IT gay folks.

[Karim]

And, I dunno about the idea that these women couldn't get men or are unattractive.

HA! Are you kidding me? Let me be succinct about this: There are women who really, really don't want children. These women are on the other side of the "SMC" coin. Catch my drift?

What if they just don't want men and want babies? Is that so messed up?

Kind of, yeah.

The logic in it is reverse. Babies come from mother/father pairs. To want a baby without the pair that creates the baby is awkward in itself, but then too is the logical error of dismissing the significance of the pair. The fact that you [seem to] think of single-parenting as being just as good as having both parents indicates that you don't understand this significance.

[Karim]

Well, I'll not engage in snark with you, but I'm one of the women who doesn't want kids. I've had plenty of opportunity to have them. I don't want them, though. Does that mean I'm lacking? Nope. And I'd hate to think that a woman or man who wants them but doesn't want a husband/partner is also lacking, especially if s/he can provide a good home and support for a baby.

What's this about lacking? I don't get it. I don't think you understood my point. The point was that women who don't want kids and women who don't want men are the same in that they both want a piece of the pie to go away. The point is that all this stuff goes together.

And, again, I don't know that it's always dismissive or "not considering the importance of two parents" for these or any other single parents. What I do know is that, in our time, saying that you have to have a DADDY and a MOMMY to be a whole person isn't realistic or logical

"Whole person?" We're just talking about parenting. The best parenting has a great mother and a great father. There is no best single-parent parenting. That's an automatic silver medal. Keep in mind that parenting isn't the only thing that determines how a child turns out. Not by a long shot. But, again, we're talking about parenting.

I guess, for me, the variable isn't WHO raises them but HOW they're raised.

Well this is obvious. But I'm forced to ask: Which do you think produced more "messed up kids," single-parent households, or two-parent households?

[Soaring above...]

I can't imagine parenting without my husband. We are both 100 percent committed parents and some days it takes that and more. I'm a strong woman, but I don't know if I would have what it takes to be always "on" 24/7. I also think there is a great deal of guilt that comes with being a parent. The first time we put the crying baby to bed, unable to console him/her was an awful feeling. And now, years later, there are situations nearly everyday that we question or worry about. The bigger the kids get, the bigger their problems are. To go it alone would not be something I would choose for anyone, knowing what I know now. I'm not sure it is something you can explain adequately enough to dissuade someone who wants a child badly. There is a wonderful balance that happens in a traditional family. Everything is so much easier.