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THE ARGUS APOCRAPHEX.


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#1 seetheskyuponthewall

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 02:50 PM

I just looked in the Archive for everything on the Argus Apocraphex, because everytime someone mentions it they're told to go there.

Since 2002, there have been a bunch of posts concerning the Argus Apocraphex, but no one really discussed it in depth. WHY????? This is the only DIRECT command from the band in the booklets. So, this time we're going to figure this out. K? K.

Here's some stuff to start with.


ARGUS

Contrary to popular MARSarmy belief, "Argus" has many more meanings than a hundred eyed monster. Argus was NOT even  the full name of that monster, it was Argus Panoptes. While on the subjest of Mythological Characters named Argus, There was also:

01. Odysseus' dog
02. Shipwright in the tale of the Argonauts.
03. The son of Zeus and Niobe
04. The eldest son of Phrixus and Chalciope


APOCRAPHEX


Well, that doesn't seem to be a real word...

BUT, "Apocrypha" means:

When the Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek (in Alexandria) about 200 BCE, some extra Jewish writings were added to the text. As the Latin Vulgate was based upon the Greek text, the Roman Catholic "Old Testament" include these passages embedded in the text. When the Reformation in the church took place, scholars made translations from the original Hebrew text and the added passages were put into a separate section called the Apocrypha, meaning hidden texts

comes from the Greek word for "secret or hidden



OK, now get to work!

PS - Damn, I've missed alot, haven't I?

#2 Aitana

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 03:59 PM

ARGUS APOCRAPHEX:

- ARGOS: greek city near Mycenae and the name of the king's son too (Argos Panoptes:he was a giant with one hundred eyes and very effective guardian, since only some of his eyes were sleeping in every moment, there being always different still awake several. (Homer, The IlŪad ii.783). Etymology: argos arg* = bright (the same indo-european root that latin word argentum (silver).

- APOCRAPHEX: latin apocriphus, from the late Greek "AP”KRYPHOS", which in rigor means: " NOT INCLUDED IN THE CANON ", which takes us to the implicit sense of: "HIDDEN", "SECRET" ["APOKR›PTEIN" = " APO - " = far, + "KR›PTEIN" = to conceal] .  Later, apocriphus take the meaning of " NOT AUTHENTIC ", " NOT GENUINE " refering to writings, books.

---
Something to read: Apollonius' The Argonautica; the quest of Jason and the Argonauts searching for the Golden Fleece.

#3 seetheskyuponthewall

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 05:31 PM

QUOTE(Aitana @ Nov 6 2005, 06:59 PM)
ARGUS APOCRAPHEX:
- ARGOS: greek city near Mycenae and the name of the king's son too (Argos Panoptes:he was a giant with one hundred eyes and very effective guardian, since only some of his eyes were sleeping in every moment, there being always different still awake several. (Homer, The IlŪad ii.783). Etymology: argos arg* = bright (the same indo-european root that latin word argentum (silver).

- APOCRAPHEX: apocriphus, from the late Greek "AP”KRYPHOS", which in rigor means: " NOT INCLUDED IN THE CANON ", which takes us to the implicit sense of: "HIDDEN", "SECRET" ["APOKR›PTEIN" = " APO - " = far, + "KR›PTEIN" = to conceal] .
Later, apocriphus take the meaning of " NOT AUTHENTIC ", " NOT GENUINE " refering to writings, books.

I already posted that 2 months ago, and yes, argus has more meanings, i only posted 1.

http://thirtysecondstomars.emiforums.com/i...ndpost&p=240953



What I want to discuss is the significance to 30STM.

And if it seemed like I was attacking you I'm sorry. I know the internet isn't exactly the best means of expressing emotion.

#4 Aitana

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 06:17 PM

QUOTE(seetheskyuponthewall @ Nov 6 2005, 07:31 PM)
What I want to discuss is the significance to 30STM.

And if it seemed like I was attacking you I'm sorry. I know the internet isn't exactly the best means of expressing emotion.

Sorry, I don't think you were attacking me. My english isn't good and sometimes could seems i'm angry but it's only that i have to express myself in short sentences because of my poor english. Sorry if you thought that.

#5 seetheskyuponthewall

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 07:58 PM

QUOTE(Aitana @ Nov 6 2005, 09:17 PM)
Sorry, I don't think you were attacking me. My english isn't good and sometimes could seems i'm angry but it's only that i have to express myself in short sentences because of my poor english. Sorry if you thought that.



THat's fine, I completely understand.  smile.gif

And on the Argus Apocraphex thing, are they telling us to look for hidden messages in the music?

#6 JerseyGirlEQ

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 08:07 PM

QUOTE(seetheskyuponthewall @ Nov 6 2005, 09:58 PM)
THat's fine, I completely understand.  smile.gif

And on the Argus Apocraphex thing, are they telling us to look for hidden messages in the music?



Aww such love.  Im clueless about all this stuff.  Where did this Argus Apocraphex come from?  Who said it when in reference to what?  Cus I may not my mythology, but im pretty good with literature and the context would help greatly!

#7 sledge

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 08:25 PM

QUOTE(seetheskyuponthewall @ Nov 6 2005, 03:50 PM)
03. The son of Zeus and Niobe



This part is intersting.  You see in Classical Art and Mythology, Zues had an affair with Niobe (part of his usual infidelities), but she was the first female he even cheated on Hera with.  Becuase she bragged about how incredible her children were that Zues had to go outside his marriage, Apollo and Artemis took it as an insult (becuase their mother is Hera) and slaughtered all of her children.  I believe Argus was the last to die.  Afterwards, Niobe refused to have them buried and let them lay and rot in the sun.  Zues took pity and buried them, and Niobe was trnasformed into a mountain.

Hmmmmm, I wonder how this might connect to it all.  Must think.

#8 JerseyGirlEQ

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 08:43 PM

QUOTE(sledge @ Nov 6 2005, 10:25 PM)
This part is intersting.  You see in Classical Art and Mythology, Zues had an affair with Niobe (part of his usual infidelities), but she was the first female he even cheated on Hera with.  Becuase she bragged about how incredible her children were that Zues had to go outside his marriage, Apollo and Artemis took it as an insult (becuase their mother is Hera) and slaughtered all of her children.  I believe Argus was the last to die.  Afterwards, Niobe refused to have them buried and let them lay and rot in the sun.  Zues took pity and buried them, and Niobe was trnasformed into a mountain.

Hmmmmm, I wonder how this might connect to it all.  Must think.


ohmy.gif WOW!  Im impressed.   laugh.gif

#9 seetheskyuponthewall

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE(JerseyGirlEQ @ Nov 6 2005, 11:07 PM)
Aww such love.  Im clueless about all this stuff.  Where did this Argus Apocraphex come from?  Who said it when in reference to what?  Cus I may not my mythology, but im pretty good with literature and the context would help greatly!



"Find the Argus Apocraphex" Is written in the covers of both albums.


And Sledge, that is EXTREMELY interesting.
I found it kind of odd that Argus was repeated so much in greek mythology.
Usually those names tend to be kind of unique, not repeated 4 or more times.

#10 Rothalion

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 09:49 PM

Listen to the Rockline interveiw. Jared says that "If you can locate a "book" called the Argus Apocraphex there is a mention of  the term 30STM."  As a cross referance, both he and Shannon have said that the the statement, 30STM was mentioned in a Harvard dissertation. While searching I crashed my laptop. 100$ screw those univ. websites! As far as hidden or cast away biblical texts; research some of Jared's thank-you's on the ABL jacket. Put you boots on because the shit gets deep!
I'm fairly good at finding books but I still haven't found this one. Published by Apocraphex Music. Says that in the jacket.

Leave no stone unturned.

#11 seetheskyuponthewall

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 09:53 PM

QUOTE(Rothalion @ Nov 7 2005, 12:49 AM)
Listen to the Rockline interveiw. Jared says that "If you can locate a "book" called the Argus Apocraphex there is a mention of  the term 30STM."  As a cross referance, both he and Shannon have said that the the statement, 30STM was mentioned in a Harvard dissertation. While searching I crashed my laptop. 100$ screw those univ. websites! As far as hidden or cast away biblical texts; research some of Jared's thank-you's on the ABL jacket. Put you boots on because the shit gets deep!
I'm fairly good at finding books but I still haven't found this one. Published by Apocraphex Music. Says that in the jacket.

Leave no stone unturned.



When?

I've listened to that inteview at least 3 times and I missed that...
I've gotta look at the new cover more too. I've completely inspected the S/T, but I haven't had time for the new one completely... Am I missing anything there?

And I'll try to look for the book.
I know the name 30STM came from a research paper on... something. I have that written  in some papers somewhere. I'll look. Thanks!

#12 nxdrxoc

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 10:16 PM

I tried looking for the book and typed in "Argus Apocraphex " at  bn.com and came up with a bunch of interesting stuff.  But two books caught my eye both by the same author....James Gleick.  The books are entitled "Faster: The Acceleration of Just About Everything" I remember in an interview J stated the name 30STM related to how today we all truly are 30 seconds to mars. Progression, in that sense. I dont know if this helps any.  The band seems fascinated with greek mythology, hidden meanings....i love it.

Vanner

#13 Rothalion

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 10:25 PM

I studied sculpture under Johann Eyfells. He spent about a week talking about the unbeilvable rate at which we were accelerating technologically. The number 30 was a prevalent number. He was always very vague wanting you to seek the answers out for yourself so he never named an author. I have gone over and over my notes. I was frightened by the lecture and dwelled on its possible cosequences. Looking up Gleick in a moment. Thanks. Thats odd.

#14 Rothalion

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 10:33 PM

QUOTE(seetheskyuponthewall @ Nov 7 2005, 04:53 AM)
When?

I've listened to that inteview at least 3 times and I missed that...
I've gotta look at the new cover more too. I've completely inspected the S/T, but I haven't had time for the new one completely... Am I missing anything there?

And I'll try to look for the book.
I know the name 30STM came from a research paper on... something. I have that written  in some papers somewhere. I'll look. Thanks!


Its the first rockline interveiw. Just after they talk about Bono. Should be in the archive thread. I'd send it if i knew how.

#15 Aitana

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 10:43 AM

About the Rockline interview, you can find all the links here  Photo archive.

http://linux.provehitoinaltum.com/MediaArc...index.php?cat=9


And about James Gleick's books:

http://www.around.com

http://fasterbook.com

#16 Rothalion

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 09:54 PM

QUOTE(Aitana @ Nov 7 2005, 05:43 PM)
About the Rockline interview, you can find all the links here† Photo archive.

http://linux.provehitoinaltum.com/MediaArc...index.php?cat=9
And about James Gleick's books:

http://www.around.com

http://fasterbook.com



Thanks for the links.

#17 xstacy203

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 10:15 PM

im just going to have to ask my mom, being that i am greek and my parents where born there.. i will find out! Argos is near the town from where my parents came from.  ive been to Argos! its beautiful!  but i can tell you this - that APOCRAPHEX - in modern Greek APOCRIPHO means IN SECRET.

#18 Rothalion

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 11:10 PM

I sent an E-mail to Johann Eyfells my old professor, I hope he knows.

#19 Peertje

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 03:38 AM

This is so cool!! This APOCRAPHEX --> APOCRIPHO = IN SECRET / Hidden Messengers thing is one of the reasons the band is so much more than just great music!! I love it. Iíve studied Greek drama but it was all in English/Dutch and not Greek. So this is my contribution (for now)...

Iíve taken this one to get searching for more info:
02. Shipwright in the tale of the Argonauts.

A ) The Argonauts were a band of heroes who, in the years before the Trojan War, accompanied Jason to Colchis in his quest for the Golden Fleece. They sailed the ship the Argo Ė hence their name, which literally means ĎSailors of the Argoí. The ship was named after its builder Argus.

B ) But another Argus theory which also meets the Argonauts is:
Argus was the eldest son of Phrixus and Chalciope, daughter of Aeetes. Argus and his brothers set out to return to their grandfatherís kingdom of Orchomenus, but were shipwreched and rescued by the Argonauts. Argus and his brothers Cytissorus, Melas and Phrontis aided Jason and the Argonauts in their quest, and later returned with them to Greece.

So the reference to Argus and Jason and the Argonauts is double:
1) A person named Argus build the Argonauts ship Argo
2) The Argonauts rescued with their ship Argo a man called Argus (and his brother)

* This is the Jason of the Argonauts who is helped by Medea to get the Golden Fleece. Itís the famous Medea who later kills their children to get revenge for Jason leaving her for the younger Glauce, daughter of Creon. - Euripides Medea (5th century)

Jason died a lonely and unhappy man with no friends. He was asleep under the stern of the Argo (after their ship I guess), which was rotten, and it fell on him, killing him instantly. It was said that the matter of his death was due to the gods cursing him for breaking his promise to Medea.

* The Golden Fleece: the fleece of the winged ram Chrysomallos. Jason quested for the Fleece in order be placed rightfully on the throne of Iolcus in Thessaly. The ram became the constellation Aries. Attempts have been made to interpret the Golden Fleece not just as a fanciful object in a myth but as reflecting some actual cultural object or practice. Thus, for example, it has at various times been suggested that the story of the Golden Fleece signified the bringing of sheep husbandry to Greece from the east, or that it refers to golden grain, or to the sun.


- So itís about: a search for something cultural, great travel, astrology signs, etc
- 30STM: Travel a lot, itís cultural, Capricorn/Mars/Jupiter/Sun, they are our 'band of heroes ' biggrin.gif


Thx to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

#20 jason745

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 04:53 AM

Here's a thread from APRIL OF 2002!

http://thirtysecondstomars.emiforums.com/i...p=440&#entry440